Re: opinions on book "The Truth Machine"

At 11:53 AM 6/1/96, Adam Back wrote:
>Tim May <tcmay@got.net> wrote:
>> At 7:06 AM 5/31/96, Timothy C. May wrote:
>> >It sounds like a "make.money.fast.by.promoting.this.book" scam to me.
>
>If you mean myself, this had not occured to me and I assure you I have
>no connections with the author, and no interest in promoting sales of
>his book.

No, Adam, I certainly was not implying you are profiting from this in any
way. Maybe the "make.money.fast" description was a poor one...what I meant
to imply is that the book is being advertised widely (I've seen half a
dozen announcements of it), and it reminds me of either the Craig Shergold
or make.money.fast posts, not sure which.

>The writing style wasn't great, and I'd agree there were plenty of
>flaws, but what I was interested in was cypherpunks opinions on the
>technology, rather than the quality of the book, or making money for

The main technology, "the truth machine," is so bogus as to be boring.

>The interesting technologies touched on were:
>
>- cheap video used by everyone to record their own lives

A better treatment of this is in David Brin's "Earth."

>That government might have a go at mandating a "voluntary" video
>survielance set up doesn't seem that unrealistic in the current
>political climate.  Having just read your post on curfews my response
>was what the fuck, are you serious?  It totally amazes me that public
>opinion has got to the stage that something like this would be
>accepted.  Sounds like a military dictatorship.  Children first,
>adults next?  The level of peoples paranoia about reducing crime at
>any cost has been severely underestimated.  Surely that's way out of
>line constitutionally?

We agree. I once jokingly wrote a post about "position escrow," and I now
fear it is not so far off. ("The Positional Update Tracking Zoner (PUTZ)
meets law enforcement's legitimate needs, with proper court authority, to
track the movements of citizen-units.")

However, what you say below about being required to explain your movements
to cops who stop you on the highway and then present "papers" to them
within one week is truly horrifying, far beyond anything we yet have here
in these beknighted states:

>For instance I have been stopped by the police four times late at
>night driving home, as I live some distance from the university.  The
>questions are basically what is your business (ie what are you doing
>so late at night), and then they get you to take in your papers to the
>police station within 1 week which is an inconvenience.  Also the
...

!!!

Glad I don't live in Britain.

--Tim May

Boycott "Big Brother Inside" software!
We got computers, we're tapping phone lines, we know that that ain't allowed.
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
tcmay@got.net  408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Licensed Ontologist         | black markets, collapse of governments.
"National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."

Tim May <tcmay@got.net> wrote:
> At 11:53 AM 6/1/96, Adam Back wrote:
> >Tim May <tcmay@got.net> wrote:
> [...] Maybe the "make.money.fast" description was a poor one...what I meant
> to imply is that the book is being advertised widely (I've seen half a
> dozen announcements of it), 

Ah .. I misunderstood, the ad is being spammed.  We have a truly awful
news feed which gets around 2 weeks of lag, at time of posting that
was the only one I'd seen.

> >The writing style wasn't great, and I'd agree there were plenty of
> >flaws, but what I was interested in was cypherpunks opinions on the
> >technology, rather than the quality of the book, or making money for
> 
> The main technology, "the truth machine," is so bogus as to be boring.

um, ok.  The presentation of it in the book was sketchy, and many of
his conclusions I felt shaky, but here's a few entries I think
plausible for lie detectors:

- travelling by car in the US a few years ago at a border check point
between two US states the border gaurds asked if anyone in the car was
not US, they made a point of looking you in the eye while questioning
you.  In conversation later it was suggested that they are trained to
observe and notice people who look nervous for some reason.  Seems
that if a technology was available to improve the reliability of quick
spot check questions they wouldn't have any compunction using it.

- drink driving breath tests (a real lie detector) to check if you
have been drinking.  No longer content with asking if you've been
drinking they ask, and then breathalize you.  In the UK it is an
offence to refuse a breath test if stopped whilst driving.

- some automation for `anything to declare?' questions at customs, a
lie detector, say put your hand on here, then `anything to declare?'

Just trying to think up some plausible examples of where it might one
day be legally required to take a lie detector test in the course of
your normal business.

> >- cheap video used by everyone to record their own lives
> 
> A better treatment of this is in David Brin's "Earth."

ta, will take a look.

> However, what you say below about being required to explain your movements
> to cops who stop you on the highway and then present "papers" to them

lest that was misleading: the documents required for presentation at
police station are insurance certificate, and MOT document
(roadworthiness certificate (another infringement of liberty in my
view, you are legally required to keep your vehicles in A1 condition,
and the strictness of the tests keeps creeping up)).  Explaining your
movements as I say I'm unsure of the legal position, but they ask you
anyway.

> !!!
> 
> Glad I don't live in Britain.

Well, we don't have curfews yet, but they're getting keen on security
video cameras lately, the university has a few even, on top of
buildings, the steerable variety, and with what I presume are IR spots
mounted on them.

Adam