Re: A Libertine Question

At 06:01 AM 7/31/96 -0700, Greg Broiles wrote:
>Which is a long way to say that street cops
>don't usually torment people with nice cars and/or houses, so those folks
>don't need to be so concerned about making sure their "papers" are "in
>order". 

Most demands for ID and conformations with police involve the operation of
motor vehicles.  I have never been "IDed" except at border crossings and
when I was operating motor vehicles.  Clean and dressed up people are rarely
IDed on foot.  Maybe you should mention some of the specific practices in
Seattle that disturb you.

>So the unconstitutional and oppressive character of the various laws
>Mike Duvos refers to is mitigated by their lack of evenhanded enforcement.
>If a cop can demand ID from someone who "looks like he doesn't belong here"
>he can demand it from you. (modulo driving, this isn't legal. But give
>Justice [sic] Rehnquist and Clinton and random congressional maniacs a few
>more years and see where things stand.)

Or flying on a commercial flight.  So far, prosecutions for "failure to
possess ID" have not succeeded.  You *can* be prosecuted for failure to
identify yourself (which is *not* the same thing).  The Philadelphia airport
was allegedly requiring *two* pieces of ID for flights.  If they are talking
about two pieces of photo -- government-issued ID, I wonder where the 80% of
Americans without a Passport (x the 90% of Americans who are not government
employees) get the second piece of ID. [Is it a violation of something if
you Heil Hitler od Sieg Heil the airline clerk when they ask to see your ID.
It's not a threat, it's an expression of honor.]

>with guns or other weapons. And just as some people "don't have a right to
>live in Seattle" if they won't toe the line, other people may find they
>"don't have a right to live in the United States." * 

The Supremes outlawed exile as a punishment in a case during the 1950s.
Said it was cruel and unusual punishment.  Guess it's OK to execute people
but not deprive them of having a government.

DCF

"If the security guard did it in Atlanta, that will be the second US
Olympics in which the only 'terrorist incident' was perpetrated by a
security person.  I guess we should outlaw security at such gatherings to
prevent terrorism."

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                          SANDY SANDFORT
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C'punks,

On Wed, 31 Jul 1996, Duncan Frissell wrote:

> "If the security guard did it in Atlanta, that will be the
> second US Olympics in which the only 'terrorist incident' was
> perpetrated by a security person.  I guess we should outlaw
> security at such gatherings to prevent terrorism."

Geez, I hope it was the security guard.  Apparently, he learned
about bombs (from the prevention side, at least) from police
courses, not the Internet.  I'm sure such courses give attendees
more than enough information to build their own devices.

As per Duncan's lead, I say the government should stop spreading
terrorist bomb making information via police, military and 
intelligence training.


 S a n d y

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

On Wed, 31 Jul 1996, Duncan Frissell wrote:

> You *can* be prosecuted for failure to
> identify yourself 

   Only if you were already under arrest. Arrestees have a duty to 
identify themselves when asked.