Re: Fw: Re: Free Pronto Secure Offer

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To: unicorn@schloss.li, cypherpunks@toad.com
Date: Thu Aug 15 10:53:53 1996
On 14 Aug unicorn wrote:
 
> "Do all the work I should be doing or have done in the first place
> discover the critical flaws in my new-keen-o-ka-jive-o crypto system
> and I will give you a free copy of a critically flawed crypto system 
> (a $99.00 value) ABSOLUTELY FREE.  Wait, don't order yet.  Included 
> you also get to> actually whitewash my fence and then mow my lawn.  
> All at NO COST to you."

Unicorn, please try to take a minute to think before hitting that send 
key.

You infer that a product is critically flawed without even trying it ?
There are quite a few members of this list who are using Pronto Secure 
and will testify to the contrary. 
See http://www.commtouch.com/testers.htm for a list of people who take 
the trouble to try out a product before venturing an opinion.

Agreed that feedback from external testers is a good deal for 
developers. It is also not a bad deal for evaluators, they get a free 
copy of a product which in the case of Pronto Secure many find useful 
(as witnessed by x-mailer headers on c'punk traffic). Testers also get 
an opportunity to contribute neat feature ideas which helps propagate 
secure messaging to the masses. 

Unicorn, you are invited to whitewash my fence :)


- ---------------------------------------------------------------
Geoff Klein, Pronto Secure Product Manager;   www.commtouch.com 
My PGP public Key 1814AD45 can be obtained by sending a message
to geoff@commtouch.co.il with "Get PGP Key" as the subject.
- ----------------------------------------------------------------

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On Thu, 15 Aug 1996, geoff wrote:

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> 
> To: unicorn@schloss.li, cypherpunks@toad.com
> Date: Thu Aug 15 10:53:53 1996
> On 14 Aug unicorn wrote:
>  
> > "Do all the work I should be doing or have done in the first place
> > discover the critical flaws in my new-keen-o-ka-jive-o crypto system
> > and I will give you a free copy of a critically flawed crypto system 
> > (a $99.00 value) ABSOLUTELY FREE.  Wait, don't order yet.  Included 
> > you also get to> actually whitewash my fence and then mow my lawn.  
> > All at NO COST to you."
> 
> Unicorn, please try to take a minute to think before hitting that send 
> key.
> 
> You infer that a product is critically flawed without even trying it ?

No, I was merely pointing out that if the review revealed that it had
problems (one assumed that the intent of peer review is to reveal such
problems in the first place, but perhaps you just like giving software
away?) then the offered reward was valueless.

> There are quite a few members of this list who are using Pronto Secure 
> and will testify to the contrary. 

A lot of people use DES on this list too I'll wager.

> See http://www.commtouch.com/testers.htm for a list of people who take 
> the trouble to try out a product before venturing an opinion.

I "tried out" your promotional scheme when I read your message, and it was
that scheme which my opinion targeted.

> Agreed that feedback from external testers is a good deal for 
> developers. It is also not a bad deal for evaluators,

This is a subjective question.

> they get a free 
> copy of a product which in the case of Pronto Secure many find useful 
> (as witnessed by x-mailer headers on c'punk traffic).

Cypherpunks is always getting the cash poor developer who thinks he very
clever because he has to pay testers no money if he offers his new product
free to the person who discovers a flaw, or writes a review.

>From your home page, I would guess that you request that reviewers allow
you to make their comments public.  That's called an endorsement, and, by
the way, people are usually paid for them.  Sometimes in the millions.

Think Michael Jordan is getting a deal when you use his name to promote
your product and then give him a $99.00 piece of software (which is
effectively worth the amount of time it takes to write a few kiss ass
paragraphs on the software, not $99.00)?

> Testers also get 
> an opportunity to contribute neat feature ideas which helps propagate 
> secure messaging to the masses. 

Alturisim is a pipe dream.

> Unicorn, you are invited to whitewash my fence :)

Do I have to review pronto secure first?

> 
> - ---------------------------------------------------------------
> Geoff Klein, Pronto Secure Product Manager;   www.commtouch.com 
> My PGP public Key 1814AD45 can be obtained by sending a message
> to geoff@commtouch.co.il with "Get PGP Key" as the subject.
> - ----------------------------------------------------------------

--
I hate lightning - finger for public key - Vote Monarchist
unicorn@schloss.li

On Thu, 15 Aug 1996, Black Unicorn wrote:
> you to make their comments public.  That's called an endorsement, and, by
> the way, people are usually paid for them.  Sometimes in the millions.
> Think Michael Jordan is getting a deal when you use his name to promote
> your product and then give him a $99.00 piece of software (which is
> effectively worth the amount of time it takes to write a few kiss ass
> paragraphs on the software, not $99.00)?
> 

     The time it takes M. Jordon to write a couple of paragraphs would 
be worth at least $99.  


Petro, Christopher C.
petro@suba.com <prefered for any non-list stuff>
snow@smoke.suba.com

On Thu, 15 Aug 1996, snow wrote:

> On Thu, 15 Aug 1996, Black Unicorn wrote:
> > you to make their comments public.  That's called an endorsement, and, by
> > the way, people are usually paid for them.  Sometimes in the millions.
> > Think Michael Jordan is getting a deal when you use his name to promote
> > your product and then give him a $99.00 piece of software (which is
> > effectively worth the amount of time it takes to write a few kiss ass
> > paragraphs on the software, not $99.00)?
> > 
> 
>      The time it takes M. Jordon to write a couple of paragraphs would 
> be worth at least $99.  

If MJ wanted a copy he need only tell someone else to write the
paragraphs and take the copy from that someone else.

The point is that the "prize" is worth only that which it takes to obtain
it.  In this case, a bum could write a review (his time is worth nearly
nothing in op. cost) and turn it over to whomever.

> 
> 
> Petro, Christopher C.
> petro@suba.com <prefered for any non-list stuff>
> snow@smoke.suba.com
> 
> 

--
I hate lightning - finger for public key - Vote Monarchist
unicorn@schloss.li