Re: USPS

Back in June I attended a presentation on this from Paul Raines, who
is running the program. As I recall, there were three services they were
planning to offer. 

1. A time-stamping service. This is basically a remailer - you would
send email to the USPS site, which would add a digital timestamp
and signature, then forward the message to it's ultimate recipient.
Customers wishing to use the service would deposit a sum of money
with the USPS, which would be debited for each use of the service
(suggested cost was on the order of 25 cents/message)
2. A CA service. Keys would be signed at various levels of assurance.
At least at the start, business strength keys would be issued only at
Postal Business centers, which are in about 100 cities in the US.
3. An archival service. For a fee, the USPS would store copies of all of
the email you send though it's remailer. Only the sender could
  retrieve it, short of a court order. In answer to a direct question, Raines
  said that user-encrypted data was OK.

Raines claimed the following advantages:

* The contents would be subject to the postal fraud statutes. 
* People would trust a message received through the remailer more
  than one which was not.
* IRS tax filings sent through the Postal system can arrive after April
  15, provided they are postmarked before that time. Tax filings sent by
  other methods must be received at the IRS before midnight on the
  15th.
* Approximate quote: "When business negotiate a deal, they do it
  over the phone, in person, etc. But when the deal is closed, what do
  they do? They write a letter, and send it via registered mail through
  the USPS."
* As a CA, the USPS was a known and trusted entity overseas, unlike
  commercial CA services.

Some specific counter arguments:

Fraud protection:  If a person was intending to commit fraud, why 
would he or she send the message through the USPS remailer?
Since the service is costly, most email will never be sent through
it, and there will not develop a tendency to regard non-USPS email
as untrustworthy.

IRS filings: If I send a tax filing to the USPS remailer at 23:45 on
April 15th, it gets a pre-midnight timestamp and is accepted by the
IRS as being on time. If I send an email tax filing directly to the IRS
at 23:45, it is also accepted (and if I was that desparate, I could also
bounce the message through Hawaii, or US Samoa, and get several
more hours of grace) Also, I was under the impression that the IRS
now accepted FedEx timestamps for tax filings. Finally, the amount
of business which this represents is miniscule.

Closing deals: Ever hear of faxes or FedEx?

My personal impression was that Raines had been listening to his 
own propaganda for too long, and was rather out of touch with the 
way things are done outside of the Beltway. I got the feeling that 
the USPS was desperately trying to find a role in a time where it
was becoming merely the cheapest and slowest player in the 
package delivery business. 
 


Peter Trei
ptrei@acm.org
[Disclaimer: I am not representing my employer.]

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In <199608231401.HAA10139@toad.com>, on 08/23/96 at 10:01 AM,
   "Peter Trei" <ptrei@ACM.ORG> said:

>Closing deals: Ever hear of faxes or FedEx?

>My personal impression was that Raines had been listening to his 
>own propaganda for too long, and was rather out of touch with the 
>way things are done outside of the Beltway. I got the feeling that 
>the USPS was desperately trying to find a role in a time where it
>was becoming merely the cheapest and slowest player in the 
>package delivery business. 

Ahhh... But you truly miss the buety of this system.

Once in place all the goverment needs to do is ban all e-mail not sent through their system. Add this to the outlawing of all non-keyescrowed encryption, and the ability to archive all messages sent through their system. Now the goverment would have total access to everything you wright.

Eventually they could get rid of all snail-mail. Put in place scaners with OCR, handwrighting reconition & voice dictation in local post offices for those without Inet access.

The even BIGGER PICTURE:

Eventually we will not have dial-up internet access the way it is today. Mater of fact we will not have phone systems the way we have today. Instead we will have 1 huge network, a SuperIneternet, inwhich all homes & business are connected. For those without computers in their homes will be small dumb terminals that will let them connect & provide basic services (such devices are being developed right now).

In such a system anyone could be monitored, at any time.

Sound far fetched? The technology is here now to do this. Just remember that the "powers to be" don't think in terms of months or years but decades. It may take 20-30yrs for such a system to be fully implimented. "They" are very patient.

1984? no, 2084 without a doubt!


- --
- -----------------------------------------------------------
William H. Geiger III  http://www.amaranth.com/~whgiii
Geiger Consulting    WebExplorer & Java Enhanced!!!
Merlin Beta Test Site - WarpServer SMP Test Site

Author of PGPMR2 - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice

Look for MR/2 Tips & Rexx Scripts
PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail.
                            
Finger whgiii@amaranth.com for PGP Key and other info
- -----------------------------------------------------------
 
MR/2 Tag->Windows: Just another pane in the glass.

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MR/2 Tag->Windows NT?  New Technology?  I don't think so...

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In <199608231401.HAA10139@toad.com>, on 08/23/96 at 10:01 AM,
   "Peter Trei" <ptrei@ACM.ORG> said:

>Closing deals: Ever hear of faxes or FedEx?

>My personal impression was that Raines had been listening to his 
>own propaganda for too long, and was rather out of touch with the 
>way things are done outside of the Beltway. I got the feeling that 
>the USPS was desperately trying to find a role in a time where it
>was becoming merely the cheapest and slowest player in the 
>package delivery business. 

Ahhh... But you truly miss the buety of this system.

Once in place all the goverment needs to do is ban all e-mail not sent through their system. Add this to the outlawing of all non-keyescrowed encryption, and the ability to archive all messages sent through their system. Now the goverment would have total access to everything you wright.

Eventually they could get rid of all snail-mail. Put in place scaners with OCR, handwrighting reconition & voice dictation in local post offices for those without Inet access.

The even BIGGER PICTURE:

Eventually we will not have dial-up internet access the way it is today. Mater of fact we will not have phone systems the way we have today. Instead we will have 1 huge network, a SuperIneternet, inwhich all homes & business are connected. For those without computers in their homes will be small dumb terminals that will let them connect & provide basic services (such devices are being developed right now).

In such a system anyone could be monitored, at any time.

Sound far fetched? The technology is here now to do this. Just remember that the "powers to be" don't think in terms of months or years but decades. It may take 20-30yrs for such a system to be fully implimented. "They" are very patient.

1984? no, 2084 without a doubt!


- --
- -----------------------------------------------------------
William H. Geiger III  http://www.amaranth.com/~whgiii
Geiger Consulting    WebExplorer & Java Enhanced!!!
Merlin Beta Test Site - WarpServer SMP Test Site

Author of PGPMR2 - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice

Look for MR/2 Tips & Rexx Scripts
PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail.
                            
Finger whgiii@amaranth.com for PGP Key and other info
- -----------------------------------------------------------
 
MR/2 Tag->Windows: Just another pane in the glass.

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Version: 2.6.2

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On Fri, 23 Aug 1996, William H. Geiger III wrote:

> Once in place all the goverment needs to do is ban all e-mail not sent
> through their system. Add this to the outlawing of all non-keyescrowed 
> encryption, and the ability to archive all messages sent through their 
> system. Now the goverment would have total access to everything you 
> wright. 

    Why not?  I believe it is already illegal to place anything in a 
person's physical mail box that the post office hasn't processed.  For 
the sake of preserving the 'integrity and security' of the Internet I 
can see the govt. taking such future actions.

                       ________________________________
                      [ Bruce M. - Feist Systems, Inc. ]
                       ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
     "Official estimates show that more than 120 countries have or are 
      developing [information warfare] capabilities." -GAO/AIMD-96-84
                         So, what is your excuse now?

On Mon, 26 Aug 1996, Bruce M. wrote:

If u think this is a worry, u should take a look at what the government 
owned monoploly telco here in Australia is doing..

On Mon, 26 Aug 1996, Bruce M. wrote:

> On Fri, 23 Aug 1996, 
William H. Geiger III wrote: > 
> > Once in place all the goverment needs to do is ban all e-mail not sent
> > through their system. Add this to the outlawing of all non-keyescrowed 
> > encryption, and the ability to archive all messages sent through their 
> > system. Now the goverment would have total access to everything you 
> > wright. 
> 
>     Why not?  I believe it is already illegal to place anything in a 
> person's physical mail box that the post office hasn't processed.  For 
> the sake of preserving the 'integrity and security' of the Internet I 
> can see the govt. taking such future actions.

Or 'they' can use our Telco (Tel$tra) 's approach and introduce 
_timecharged_ local data calls as it is trying to do here in Australia.

What better or easier way to destroy our meagre outlet for free speech 
than to cost it out of existance.

See Stewart Fist's excellent article on the subject currently available 
on "The Australian" newspapers site:

<A HREF="http://www.australian.aust.com/computer/columns/fistcom.htm">

See also draft legislation at

<A HREF="http://www.dca.gov.au/govtpol.html">

and Universal Telco Service Obligations at

<A HREF="http://www.dca.gov.au/"> (many references) 

They took our firearms last month..they're comin back for the net this month.

-- 
   .////.   .//    Charles Senescall            apache@quux.apana.org.au
 o:::::::::///     Fuck TEL$TRA          
>::::::::::\\\     Finger me for PGP PUBKEY           Brisbane AUSTRALIA
   '\\\\\'   \\    http://quux.apana.org.au/~apache/ 
    DO something for your country: Butt slap a politician this xmas