Re: Stop the presses -- Anti-terrorism bill not that bad

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Hallam-Baker Wrote -- 
> Date:          Sun, 04 Aug 1996 20:20:20 -0400

> I personally think that tagants is an insuffieicent approach to
> the problem. Given the number of gun related homicides in the
> US it is not unreasonable to require each individual cartridge
> to be stamped with a serial number and for gun dealers to be 
> required to record each individual purchase. That at least 
> was my advice to the UK govt after Dunblane. 

There's four major problems with this.  First off, a large number of 
guns used in homicides are revolvers or derringers (anyone got the 
numbers?).  These guns don't spit out the shells.  So, it would be 
utterly useless to do so.  The second problem is the number of shells 
expelled in the US every day.  I doubt there's enough room on the 
butt end of a shell to print that number (it couldn't be printed on 
the sides, as this would screw up the fit of the shell, and possibly 
weaken it).  And, it'd be almost impossible getting gun manufacturers to
pay for the equiptment that it would take to emprint serial numbers.  
The third number is that cartridges 
are recycled.  Aside from reloading your own, there's a large number 
of people that sweep up brass from gun ranges to reload themselves.  
The idea that someone swept up the brass could get almost anyone off. 
The final problem is the paperwork.  Cops today can barly keep up 
with the paperwork involved with the Brady Bill.  Could you imagine 
if they had to keep track of AMMO purchases?

> If people go arround claiming that ownership of guns is necessary
> so that people can commit acts of treason against the US govt
> then it is inevitable that there will be pressure for greater

The provision to give people the means to commit treason against the 
government are in the Constitution.  That's why the second amendment 
is there -- to empower the people to protect themselves against the 
government.  Then there's the first amendment, which is there 
partially so that the people can keep the government in check with 
speech and the press.

> regulation. The NRA has been playing a bad hand stupidly. By
> raising the militia argument they have played into the hands
> of abolitionists. It would be entirely foolish for the crypto

The NRA, I'm sorry to say, has screwed up royally.  It's about time 
that they regroup, or else they fall.


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   Sean Sutherland    | mailto:maverick@interconnect.net
PGP Key ID - e43e6489 | http://www2.interconnect.net/maverick
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Phill writes
> Given the number of gun related homicides in the
> US it is not unreasonable to require each individual cartridge
> to be stamped with a serial number and for gun dealers to be 
> required to record each individual purchase.

Phill, as usual, displaying your ignorance?

Many of my friends reload spent brass. I realize that you might not
get this idea, but guns are a technology that hasn't advanced
significantly since 1900 or so, other than maybe lightening things
with plastic stocks. (The few innovations that have been tried, like
trounds and caseless ammo, haven't ever taken off). The result of this
is that a heavy fraction of the people who own guns have the ability
to LOAD THEIR OWN AMMUNITON. Indeed, anyone who wants to can do it!
Even without a PhD!

In fact, lots of cheapskates who like to shoot a lot regularly go out
to ranges and sweep up other people's spent brass. If you open up a
good magazine for those of us who aren't scared of guns, you will see
ads for dozens of inexpensive devices to help you trim and fix cases
in a semi-automated way, and to load ammo mostly by turning a crank.

BTW, such devices are trivial to make yourself, and plans are readily
available. Its all low technology.

Were you not totally ignorant of how guns are used, this wouldn't be
news to you.

Now, on top of that, our ignorant socialist friend seems to forget
that brass is not immutable -- that is, that it would take about
thirty seconds and an awl would get rid of any serial number you cared
to stamp. On an empty case, its even easier.

The real key here is of course that idiots going crazy and killing 20
people in a schoolyard kill fewer people than slippery wet floors, and
the whole thing is so insignificant that it can be ignored. The drug
related killings would go away were drugs legalized, as would a heavy
fraction of the petty crime, and most of the rest of the abuses of
guns are so tiny in comparison to the legitimate uses as to be
insignificant.

(Oh, and by the way, Dr. Hallam-Baker -- I consider suicide, which is
counted in the HCI "statistics" on gun deaths, to be a perfectly
legitimate use of a weapon. Its every person's right to off themselves
any time they like by my way of thinking, and you have no right to
force people to live against their will any more than you have the
right to force them into slavery.)


Perry

On Wed, 7 Aug 1996, Perry E. Metzger wrote:

> (Oh, and by the way, Dr. Hallam-Baker -- I consider suicide, which is
> counted in the HCI "statistics" on gun deaths, to be a perfectly
> legitimate use of a weapon. Its every person's right to off themselves
> any time they like by my way of thinking, and you have no right to
> force people to live against their will any more than you have the
> right to force them into slavery.)

Concur, as long as the estate is charged the cleaning bill.

If you off yourself with a gun, please put down plastic.
It's simple, it's effective, and it's considerate.

> 
> Perry
> 

--
I hate lightning - finger for public key - Vote Monarchist
unicorn@schloss.li

For anyone who's interested, the antiterrorism bill is finally up on
Thomas.  It's H.R. 3953, the Aviation Security and Antiterrorism Act of
1996.  The discussion about it is also there, in the congressional
record.  It's interesting.

-- 
You should only break rules of style if you can    | Tom Weinstein
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