Imprisoned for Not Having a Gun?

At 5:35 PM 8/8/96, talon57@well.com wrote:
>Jonathon <grafolog@netcom.com> wrote:
>
>>Said ordinance being passed, as a protest against Elk Grove, IL
>>passing an orinance, banning handguns.  Anybody know when Elk
>>Grove revoked their ordinance?  Crime went down for six months
>>there [ Elk Grove ] after the ban was passed, then it went up
>>far surpassing previous crime levels, for all types of crime.
>
>Pardon me Jonathon, but I believe you are confusing Morton Grove
>with Elk Grove. I do not have the statistics for the crime rates
>there, but several friends who have moved from there insist the
>crime rate has continued upwards as you mentioned. Also there are
>a couple of other interesting facts.

Regarding that town nearby that passed a _requirement_ that all households
have a gun:

"Ma'm, I'm Deputy Uptite, of the Dork's Grove Sheriff's Department. I'm
here to check on reports that you haven't obtained a gun, as required by
law. Could I come in and take a look around?"

"But I don't like guns, and I don't want one in my house."

"I'm sorry, ma'm, but it's the law. According to the People's
Self-Protection Act of 1997, you _must_ have  a gun. Now what I'm going to
do is give you a break. Think of this as a "fix-it ticket." Take this down
to my cousin's gun store, right off of Main and 10th, and he'll get you set
up with a Glock 23 or maybe a nice little Beretta. Shouldn't cost you more
than $400, and it'll save you a 6-month stretch at the work farm. Have a
nice day. Oh, and be sure to spend at least an hour at the week at the
range...that's part of the law, too."

---

Pro-gun fascism is just as bad a anti-gun fascism.

I do recall that the "you must have a gun" town had some exemptions for
folks opposed to guns, blah blah, but it still is intensely revolting to me
that any town could ever pass such a law. Much as I think being armed is
useful and all that, allowing such a law to go unchallenged feeds into the
same approach that tries to ban guns...if guns can be required, they can be
banned. What part of the Second Amendment did they not understand? (Legal
quibblers will perhaps say the Second applies to _Congress_ (as in
"Congress shall make no law"), and not to states and communities. I
disagree. Can a town restrict free speech just because it is not the
Congress?)

--Tim May

Boycott "Big Brother Inside" software!
We got computers, we're tapping phone lines, we know that that ain't allowed.
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
tcmay@got.net  408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
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Tim,

THe "must have a gun" was a political-art statement; a rhetorical device.

I realize that you didn't recognize it as such, because there is never 
any inflammatory or posturing rhetoric on this list.....

Tim:

On Thu, 8 Aug 1996, Timothy C. May wrote:

> >Pardon me Jonathon, but I believe you are confusing Morton Grove
> >with Elk Grove. I do not have the statistics for the crime rates

	Mea culpa.  Morton Grove is right.  

> Regarding that town nearby that passed a _requirement_ that all households
> have a gun:
	
	In the case of Kennesaw, if you had a personal objection 
	to having a handgun -- or any other weapon --- in your home,
	you were automatically exempt.  If federal, or state law 
	prohibited you from owning a weapon, you were also exempt.  

	Also note that the official city policy was to not enforce
	that specific law.  It was a purely symbolic thing, which
	did have some interesting side-effects.  

        xan

        jonathon
        grafolog@netcom.com



VapourWare is like the Tao,
Looked for it cannot be found,
Reached for it cannot be touched,
Waited for not even FedX can deliver;
            <Paid for it will not be refunded>

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                          SANDY SANDFORT
 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

C'punks,

On Thu, 8 Aug 1996, Timothy C. May wrote:

> Regarding that town nearby that passed a _requirement_ that all
> households have a gun:
> ...
> Pro-gun fascism is just as bad a anti-gun fascism.
> 
> I do recall that the "you must have a gun" town had some
> exemptions for folks opposed to guns, blah blah, but it still
> is intensely revolting to me that any town could ever pass
> such a law...

I can't find the exact quote, but Will Rogers quipped that every
time Congress made a law, it was a joke.  And every time Congress
made a joke it was a law.  The town near Morton Grove was not
making a real requirement that every household have a gun, they
were just making a joke at Morton Grove's expense.  In addition
to the "exceptions," there was no penalty for violation of the
law, thus making sure it was unenforceable.  It was not a case
of "pro-gun fascism" but of rough American political humor.  At
the very least it kept the city council out of more serious 
mischief.


 S a n d y

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

On Thu, 8 Aug 1996, Sandy Sandfort wrote:

> I can't find the exact quote, but Will Rogers quipped that every
> time Congress made a law, it was a joke.  And every time Congress
> made a joke it was a law.  The town near Morton Grove was not
> making a real requirement that every household have a gun, they
> were just making a joke at Morton Grove's expense.  In addition
> to the "exceptions," there was no penalty for violation of the
> law, thus making sure it was unenforceable.  It was not a case
> of "pro-gun fascism" but of rough American political humor.  At
> the very least it kept the city council out of more serious 
> mischief.

    This is very similiar to the law (federal I believe) which states 
that you must report any 'computer crimes' to the authorities.  There are 
no punishments and it was obviously crafted to be more of a means of 
counting the crimes than solving them.  If anyone is interetes, I will 
get the specifics.

                       ________________________________
                      [ Bruce M. - Feist Systems, Inc. ]
                       ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
     "Official estimates show that more than 120 countries have or are 
      developing [information warfare] capabilities." -GAO/AIMD-96-84
                         So, what is your excuse now?

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On Thu, 8 Aug 1996, Timothy C. May wrote:
> 
> Pro-gun fascism is just as bad a anti-gun fascism.
> 
> I do recall that the "you must have a gun" town had some exemptions for
> folks opposed to guns, blah blah, but it still is intensely revolting to me
> that any town could ever pass such a law. Much as I think being armed is
> useful and all that, allowing such a law to go unchallenged feeds into the
> same approach that tries to ban guns...if guns can be required, they can be
> banned. What part of the Second Amendment did they not understand? (Legal
> quibblers will perhaps say the Second applies to _Congress_ (as in
> "Congress shall make no law"), and not to states and communities. I
> disagree. Can a town restrict free speech just because it is not the
> Congress?)
> 
> --Tim May
> 

I agree with you.  I don't have anything against guns, but either
requiring them or disallowing them is just plain dumb.  It should be
noted that the Supreme Court's interpretaion of "Congress shall make no
law" is basicly "no lawmaking body that holds any jurisdiction shall make
no law"...

 --Deviant
There are four kinds of homicide: felonious, excusable, justifiable,
and praiseworthy ...
                -- Ambrose Bierce, "The Devil's Dictionary"


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