Re: Anguilla - A DataHaven?

On Thu, 15 Aug 1996, Arun Mehta wrote:

> I'm sure this has come up before, but what would prevent a server
> being located on a buoy or something at sea outside territorial
> limits (or when satellites become cheaper, on a satellite itself)
> offering such services?  

Something that I thought would make an excellent data haven would
be older offshore oil platforms, Their size would allow extended
living periods, electrcity and communications are in place, They
are generally built outside of the territorial waters of most
countries to avoid any damage to the shorelines if oil spilled
(possibility for becoming its own country?) and with the hoops
that Shell Oil went through to please Greenpeace with its last
oil platform.  You have to wonder how cheap these could sell 
for just to get them off the oil companies hands? 

Comments or suggestions?

William Knowles
erehwon@c2.org


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erehwon@c2.org:
> Something that I thought would make an excellent data haven would
> be older offshore oil platforms.

I recall the Royal Navy raiding WWII era Anti-Aircraft platforms
that were housing pirate BBC competitors....

This was in the 60's I think....



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> 
> On Thu, 15 Aug 1996, Arun Mehta wrote:
> 
> > I'm sure this has come up before, but what would prevent a server
> > being located on a buoy or something at sea outside territorial
> > limits (or when satellites become cheaper, on a satellite itself)
> > offering such services?  
> 
> Something that I thought would make an excellent data haven would
> be older offshore oil platforms, Their size would allow extended
> living periods, electrcity and communications are in place, They
> are generally built outside of the territorial waters of most
> countries to avoid any damage to the shorelines if oil spilled
> (possibility for becoming its own country?) and with the hoops
> that Shell Oil went through to please Greenpeace with its last
> oil platform.  You have to wonder how cheap these could sell 
> for just to get them off the oil companies hands? 
> 
> Comments or suggestions?
> 
> William Knowles
> erehwon@c2.org

(The machine crashed when I was writing this letter, so if cpunks got two,
I apologize.)

How would this rig be defended?

Pirates still exist.  Even if you can give them something to think about
with a 30/06 bullet at their waterline, there are always small countries
who have navies that can be hired.  They may be small and defenseless
compared to the US navy, but against a basically unarmed oil rig, do have
the ability to sink the rig at their whim.

Its ironic that I am playing Devil's Advocate with data havens, but have
the only working input/output code for one that I know of.  (I have been
having problems with it, so until I work some bugs out I haven't put it
for offer via FTP.)

I think for now try to make something that uses the same technology as a
data haven -- An offsite secure storage server.  Discussed in this list
about a year ago, this uses data haven code, and is equivalent to a
sufferance remailer, but at least these can exist.  The first step is
having them exist overtly first, and having "terms of service", then
working on DC-nets, "RAID" DH's, etc.

I have a tokenlike system -- "Storage Noodles", but haven't gotten it
working reliably yet.

On Thu, 15 Aug 1996, Douglas R. Floyd wrote:
  
> > On Thu, 15 Aug 1996, William Knowles wrote:
> >
> > Something that I thought would make an excellent data haven 
> > would be older offshore oil platforms, Their size would 
> > allow extended living periods, electrcity and communications 
> > are in place, They are generally built outside of the 
> > territorial waters of most countries to avoid any damage 
> > to the shorelines if oil spilled (possibility for becoming 
> > its own country?)
>
> How would this rig be defended?
> 
> Pirates still exist.  Even if you can give them something to 
> think about with a 30/06 bullet at their waterline, there are 
> always small countries who have navies that can be hired.  
> They may be small and defenseless compared to the US navy, 
> but against a basically unarmed oil rig, do have the ability 
> to sink the rig at their whim.

Now I don't claim to be a naval defence expert, But from what 
I do read of the dogeared copies of Jane's Defence Weekly, 
Would be to install three or four Phalanx Close-In Weapons 
Systems, The Phalanx is a radar guided 20mm Gatling gun spraying 
out 4500 rpm at a range of 1600 yards.  Quite perfect for downing 
a privately owned MiG-21, Exocet missles from pissed off French 
gunboats for storing Chirac's medical records and maybe keeping 
those pesky mercenaries from skydiving onboard.

Since the fall of the Iron Curtain, there are literally all 
sorts of firepower for sale in the open markets, trolling in 
the alt.business newsgroups I have been able to find quite 
a few MiG's for sale, and there's a fellow in Finland that 
has a former Soviet 'Julliet Class' Diesel-Electric submarine 
and I understand he's taking offers.
 
Now this is a completely doable concept, and likely more realistic
than the Oceania project, Unfortunatly like all things, it comes
down to how much money you want to throw at it, I remember how 
many us on this list balked at Vince charging $500.00 for one
year on a Unix Shell account, I wonder what the market would 
bear for both a technologically and physically secure datahaven?

William Knowles
erehwon@c2.org


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On Thu, 15 Aug 1996, Douglas R. Floyd wrote:
> > On Thu, 15 Aug 1996, Arun Mehta wrote:
> > > I'm sure this has come up before, but what would prevent a server
> > > being located on a buoy or something at sea outside territorial
> > > limits (or when satellites become cheaper, on a satellite itself)
> > > offering such services?  
> > living periods, electrcity and communications are in place, They
> > are generally built outside of the territorial waters of most
> > countries to avoid any damage to the shorelines if oil spilled
> > (possibility for becoming its own country?) and with the hoops
> > that Shell Oil went through to please Greenpeace with its last
> > oil platform.  You have to wonder how cheap these could sell 
> > for just to get them off the oil companies hands? 
> (The machine crashed when I was writing this letter, so if cpunks got two,
> I apologize.)
> How would this rig be defended?

     .50 Machine guns on the decks, everyone on board capable of shooting 
straight carrying at least a pistol and gas masks. The gas masks are for the 
tear gas dispencers. 

    Hire Vinnie? 

    There are ways to make it inadvisable to attack the system. Blackmail 
material is always a good thing. 


> Pirates still exist.  Even if you can give them something to think about
> with a 30/06 bullet at their waterline, there are always small countries
> who have navies that can be hired.  They may be small and defenseless
> compared to the US navy, but against a basically unarmed oil rig, do have
> the ability to sink the rig at their whim.

     A couple of surplus wire guided missles might go a long way to disuading
them. 


Petro, Christopher C.
petro@suba.com <prefered for any non-list stuff>
snow@smoke.suba.com

On Thu, 15 Aug 1996, William Knowles wrote:

> Something that I thought would make an excellent data haven would
> be older offshore oil platforms, Their size would allow extended

	These used to be the recommended way to go. 

	If you have the cash, the cheapest way to go, is to just
	buy an island somewhere, and setup shop.   << Can I
	suggest buying Redonda?   >>

> (possibility for becoming its own country?) and with the hoops

	CF:   _How to create your own country_  distributed
	by Loompanics Press, for some of the problems that 
	are encountered in trying to do this. 

> oil platform.  You have to wonder how cheap these could sell 
> for just to get them off the oil companies hands? 

	Starting bids are roughly $10^6 each.

        xan

        jonathon
        grafolog@netcom.com



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On Fri, 16 Aug 1996, jonathon wrote:

> On Thu, 15 Aug 1996, William Knowles wrote:
> 
> > Something that I thought would make an excellent data haven would
> > be older offshore oil platforms, Their size would allow extended
> 
> 	These used to be the recommended way to go. 
> 
> 	If you have the cash, the cheapest way to go, is to just
> 	buy an island somewhere, and setup shop.   << Can I
> 	suggest buying Redonda?   >>

Where is Redonda on the map, I'm too lazy to look it up, 
The group working on the Oceania Project tried to find an 
accommodating country that would allow them to run as a soverign
nation, Last I heard they were planning to purchase a former 
hospital ship and refurbish it.
 
> > (possibility for becoming its own country?) and with the hoops
> 
> 	CF:   _How to create your own country_  distributed
> 	by Loompanics Press, for some of the problems that 
> 	are encountered in trying to do this. 

About now I am feeling like Woody Allen in 'Bananas' I'll find
Tim May becoming 'El Presidente' alerting everybody on the island
that their underwear will be worn on the outside, A yearly gift
of his weight in discarded AOL disks, and that everyone must own 
a hot-tub just like his  :) 

Cheers!

William Knowles
erehwon@c2.org


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On Fri, 16 Aug 1996, William Knowles wrote:

> Where is Redonda on the map, I'm too lazy to look it up, 

	It is a dependancy of Anguilla.   

	The only permanent inhabitants are birds.  

	I don't remember if Redonda, or Anguilla's other
	dependency is the one that is under water at high tide.
	<< That little problem hasn't prevented Anguilla from
	issueing stamps, and currency for both of those dependencies.  >>

        xan

        jonathon
        grafolog@netcom.com



		VapourWare is like the Tao,
		Looked for it cannot be found,
		Reached for it cannot be touched,
		Waited for not even FedX can deliver;
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