(NOISE) Re: Free Pronto Secure Offer

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To: unicorn@schloss.li, cypherpunks@toad.com
Date: Fri Aug 16 02:41:34 1996
Unicorn,

> No, I was merely pointing out that if the review revealed that it
> had problems (one assumed that the intent of peer review is to reveal
> such problems in the first place, but perhaps you just like giving
> software away?) then the offered reward was valueless.

Peer review seems to have voted that their risk paid off.
 
> A lot of people use DES on this list too I'll wager.
and...

> I "tried out" your promotional scheme when I read your message, and
> it was that scheme which my opinion targeted.

You misinterpreted my reply to a list member's enquiry about whether 
our offer of Pronto Secure in exchange for feedback was still 
available. 
 
> This is a subjective question.
Yes.

> Cypherpunks is always getting the cash poor developer who thinks he
> very clever because he has to pay testers no money if he offers his 
> new product free to the person who discovers a flaw, or writes a 
> review.

Unicorn, you are again letting your fingers move faster than your 
brain. On what do you base your evaluation of our liquidity ? (not that 
it is relevant). Most Cypherpunks are technically savvy and crypto 
aware people, they provide a perfect community for evaluating and 
debugging a security enabling product. I would strongly recommend this 
route to any developer of serious security enhancing software. My 
sincere thanks to all c'punks who have and continue to provide 
incredibly valuable input into Pronto Secure.

> From your home page, I would guess that you request that reviewers
> allow you to make their comments public.  That's called an 
> endorsement, and, by the way, people are usually paid for them.  
> Sometimes in the millions. Think Michael Jordan is getting a deal 
> when you use his name to promote your product and then give him a 
> $99.00 piece of software (which is effectively worth the amount of 
> time it takes to write a few kiss ass paragraphs on the software, not 
> $99.00)?

Unicorn, you are again making groundless assumptions. I suggest that 
you do some fence painting before you enlighten us with your opinions 
about our "kiss ass paragraphs" of code.
Unless Michael Jordon is reading Schneier on the sly, his endorsement 
of Pronto secure is not worth 99c.

> Alturisim is a pipe dream.
Depends what you are putting in your pipe :)
I venture that most c'punks would agree that moving strong e-mail 
security into mainstream is a good thing. This is not going to happen 
without people making money from it.

>> Unicorn, you are invited to whitewash my fence :)
> Do I have to review pronto secure first?
Yes.

Geoff.

- ---------------------------------------------------------------
Geoff Klein, Pronto Secure Product Manager;   www.commtouch.com 
My PGP public Key 1814AD45 can be obtained by sending a message
to geoff@commtouch.co.il with "Get PGP Key" as the subject.
- ----------------------------------------------------------------

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On Fri, 16 Aug 1996, geoff wrote:

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> 
> To: unicorn@schloss.li, cypherpunks@toad.com
> Date: Fri Aug 16 02:41:34 1996
> Unicorn,
> 
> > No, I was merely pointing out that if the review revealed that it
> > had problems (one assumed that the intent of peer review is to reveal
> > such problems in the first place, but perhaps you just like giving
> > software away?) then the offered reward was valueless.
> 
> Peer review seems to have voted that their risk paid off.
>  
> > A lot of people use DES on this list too I'll wager.
> and...
> 
> > I "tried out" your promotional scheme when I read your message, and
> > it was that scheme which my opinion targeted.
> 
> You misinterpreted my reply to a list member's enquiry about whether 
> our offer of Pronto Secure in exchange for feedback was still 
> available. 
>  
> > This is a subjective question.
> Yes.
> 
> > Cypherpunks is always getting the cash poor developer who thinks he
> > very clever because he has to pay testers no money if he offers his 
> > new product free to the person who discovers a flaw, or writes a 
> > review.
> 
> Unicorn, you are again letting your fingers move faster than your 
> brain. On what do you base your evaluation of our liquidity ?

I didn't say anything about your liquidity did I?

 (not that 
> it is relevant). Most Cypherpunks are technically savvy and crypto 
> aware people, they provide a perfect community for evaluating and 
> debugging a security enabling product.

Which is why people are constantly trying to get their services for what
is in effect nothing.

> I would strongly recommend this 
> route to any developer of serious security enhancing software.

So would I, however, the assumption that "cypherpunk crypto review
services" are to be had for nothing is the height of arrogance.

> My 
> sincere thanks to all c'punks who have and continue to provide 
> incredibly valuable input into Pronto Secure.

If you were sincere, you'd thank them with cash.  Afterall, you seem
to suggest that you have a good deal of liquidity eh?
 
> > From your home page, I would guess that you request that reviewers
> > allow you to make their comments public.  That's called an 
> > endorsement, and, by the way, people are usually paid for them.  
> > Sometimes in the millions. Think Michael Jordan is getting a deal 
> > when you use his name to promote your product and then give him a 
> > $99.00 piece of software (which is effectively worth the amount of 
> > time it takes to write a few kiss ass paragraphs on the software, not 
> > $99.00)?
> 
> Unicorn, you are again making groundless assumptions. I suggest that 
> you do some fence painting before you enlighten us with your opinions 
> about our "kiss ass paragraphs" of code.

Uh, the kiss ass paragraphs were the reviewers comments, not your code.

Are you so used to attacks that you see every comment as one or what?

> Unless Michael Jordon is reading Schneier on the sly, his endorsement 
> of Pronto secure is not worth 99c.

THAT, is the key of your ignorance.  Endorsements are valueable if they
bring business, period.

Picture big ole MJ on TV with his suit and tie holding up your product and
proclaiming that his multi-level global investment strategy would be
impossible to do the way he does it without pronto-secure.

Not worth 99c?  Please.

> > Alturisim is a pipe dream.
> Depends what you are putting in your pipe :)
> I venture that most c'punks would agree that moving strong e-mail 
> security into mainstream is a good thing. This is not going to happen 
> without people making money from it.

Make all the money you want, but I grow weary of seeing "review my product
and get a consolation prize" deals.  I doubt I'm the only one.

> >> Unicorn, you are invited to whitewash my fence :)
> > Do I have to review pronto secure first?
> Yes.

I rest my case.

> Geoff.
> 
> - ---------------------------------------------------------------
> Geoff Klein, Pronto Secure Product Manager;   www.commtouch.com 
> My PGP public Key 1814AD45 can be obtained by sending a message
> to geoff@commtouch.co.il with "Get PGP Key" as the subject.
> - ----------------------------------------------------------------
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> 

--
I hate lightning - finger for public key - Vote Monarchist
unicorn@schloss.li