Re: Internal Passports

At 07:37 PM 8/5/96 -0700, you wrote:
>Personally, I don't care. In fact, when employing gardeners and yard works
>I prefer Mexicans. But the law says, these days, that I must verify the
>legality of workers *if* they appear to be dark-skinned, Mexican, Latin, or
>the like. I say "if" because there are no requirements in general for
>white-skinned, Anglo workers....no work permits, no proofs of citizenship
>(such a document is currently lacking in the American pantheon...I, a mixed
>descendant of Mayflower colonist and Scandinavian immigrants, lack such
>"proof").

If you're _employing_ Anglos, you're currently required to disrespect their
honesty and demand proof that their papers are in order to fill out the I-9
form.
There's a list of "one from column A or one from columns B and C"
of acceptable papers, such as passports, birth certificates,
driver's licenses, US Military ID, etc., which the government uses
to determine whether they want to give you permission to hire them
and give them permission to work.  If you don't have these, 
you can join the Army, and they'll give you some papers.
I hope you weren't Un-American enough to be born at home, though -
without that government-issued birth certificate, the Army
won't be able to verify your age.

None of that is really proof of citizenship - after all, you could 
have renounced your US citizenship and become stateless or joined 
a foreign government.  But President Buchanan's loyalty oath requirements
should take care of that, as well as help with the problem of all these
immigrant Brits and Irish and Canadians flooding our shores - I mean,
look around you, they're everywhere.  Y'all can't walk into a 7-11 these days
without some clerk speaking funny-soundin' English at you.

And the reason you can't legally just hire contractors and not have them
count as employees has a lot to do with Senator Frank Lautenberg (D-NJ),
who made a lot of money running ADP, a computer-services bodyshop,
that wanted to preserve its advantages against more flexible competition.

#			Thanks;  Bill
# Bill Stewart, +1-415-442-2215 stewarts@ix.netcom.com
# <A HREF="http://idiom.com/~wcs"> 	Defuse Authority!

> If you're _employing_ Anglos, you're currently required to disrespect their
> honesty and demand proof that their papers are in order to fill out the I-9
> form.

At one time, I worked in a position requiring all kinds of
clearances - TS, SCI, {xxx} etc.

We hired a bunch of new engineers. They'd all been through the
wringer before we brought them on board. This takes 6 months or
so; Full Field Investigation, etc.......

They showed up all ready to work for Uncle Sam.  The very first
form they encountered was the I9 "Prove you are a citizen..."

-- 
A host is a host from coast to coast.................wb8foz@nrk.com
& no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX
Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433

On Aug 6, 19:59, Bill Stewart wrote:
> Subject: Re: Internal Passports
> At 07:37 PM 8/5/96 -0700, you wrote:
> If you're _employing_ Anglos, you're currently required to disrespect their
> honesty and demand proof that their papers are in order to fill out the I-9
> form.
> There's a list of "one from column A or one from columns B and C"
> of acceptable papers, such as passports, birth certificates,
> driver's licenses, US Military ID, etc., which the government uses
>... 
> None of that is really proof of citizenship - after all, you could 
> have renounced your US citizenship and become stateless or joined 
> a foreign government.

Driver's licence and social security card are currently enough.

Before 1989 (or so, I'm not sure about the cutoff) the SSA issued 
unrestricted social security cards to people on temporary visas who 
had authorization to work for some period (e.g. students on an F-1 
visa could then work on campus - and the SSA would issue an ordinary 
unrestricted social security card). After 1989, I understand, that social 
security cards issued under these circumstances are marked "not 
valid for employment without INS documentation" or something similar. 

So, it is perfectly possible to have a social security card and a 
driver's licence without having the right to work in the U.S. The I-9 
documentation doesn't prove anything. 

I note that California requires some sort of documentation (birth 
cert, INS documentation etc.) for a new driver's licence. Don't know
about other states.  

probably related story:
This might explain why in 1994 when I was travelling back home to 
Vancouver B.C. from Europe via the states (cheap ticket), the U.S. 
immigration officer asked me "Do you have a social security number?". 
I said yes. She then asked "do you have your social security card 
with you?" I didn't have it, and said so. She asked to see my ticket 
on to Vancouver, and that was it. I thought it was weird at the time 
as I'm used to various questions, and hearing one that I didn't 
expect at least made the experience mildly interesting. 

-- 
Mark Henderson -- mch@squirrel.com, henderso@netcom.com, markh@wimsey.bc.ca
ViaCrypt PGP Key Fingerprint: 21 F6 AF 2B 6A 8A 0B E1  A1 2A 2A 06 4A D5 92 46
unstrip for Solaris, Wimsey crypto archive, TECO, computer security links,
change-sun-hostid, Sun NVRAM/hostid FAQ - http://www.squirrel.com/squirrel/

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On Wed, 7 Aug 1996, Mark C. Henderson wrote:
> 
> I note that California requires some sort of documentation (birth 
> cert, INS documentation etc.) for a new driver's licence. Don't know
> about other states.  
> 

Hrmm... North Carolina requires 2 forms of ID, which can be an older
Driver's license, a SS card, a military ID, a birth certificate, or
(you'll love this one)...   "A filled in job application"... It doesn't
even have to be signed by the company, or any of that shit.  I can walk
over to RatShack, ask for an application, fill it out as "J. E. Hoover",
and its a valid form of ID at the DMV.

> probably related story:
> This might explain why in 1994 when I was travelling back home to 
> Vancouver B.C. from Europe via the states (cheap ticket), the U.S. 
> immigration officer asked me "Do you have a social security number?". 
> I said yes. She then asked "do you have your social security card 
> with you?" I didn't have it, and said so. She asked to see my ticket 
> on to Vancouver, and that was it. I thought it was weird at the time 
> as I'm used to various questions, and hearing one that I didn't 
> expect at least made the experience mildly interesting. 
> 

Hrmm.. that is a bit odd, isn't it?

 --Deviant
THE MAGIC WORDS ARE SQUEAMISH OSSIFRAGE


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On Thu, 8 Aug 1996, The Deviant wrote:
> On Wed, 7 Aug 1996, Mark C. Henderson wrote:
> > I note that California requires some sort of documentation (birth 
> > cert, INS documentation etc.) for a new driver's licence. Don't know
> > about other states.  
> 
> Hrmm... North Carolina requires 2 forms of ID, which can be an older
> Driver's license, a SS card, a military ID, a birth certificate, or
> (you'll love this one)...   "A filled in job application"... It doesn't
> even have to be signed by the company, or any of that shit.  I can walk
> over to RatShack, ask for an application, fill it out as "J. E. Hoover",
> and its a valid form of ID at the DMV.

     You forgot "The Family Bible" at least that was in effect the last
time I was in N.C.

Petro, Christopher C.
petro@suba.com <prefered for any non-list stuff>
snow@smoke.suba.com

Nrth Carolina Jury instructions also mention that petite jurors are 
"discouraged" from asking questions of the witness. I guess that means 
they are not forbidden to do so.

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On Thu, 8 Aug 1996, snow wrote:

> Date: Thu, 8 Aug 1996 10:18:07 -0500 (CDT)
> From: snow <snow@smoke.suba.com>
> To: The Deviant <deviant@pooh-corner.com>
> Cc: "Mark C. Henderson" <mch@squirrel.com>,
>     Bill Stewart <stewarts@ix.netcom.com>,
>     "Timothy C. May" <tcmay@got.net>, cypherpunks@toad.com
> Subject: Re: Internal Passports
> 
> On Thu, 8 Aug 1996, The Deviant wrote:
> > On Wed, 7 Aug 1996, Mark C. Henderson wrote:
> > > I note that California requires some sort of documentation (birth 
> > > cert, INS documentation etc.) for a new driver's licence. Don't know
> > > about other states.  
> > 
> > Hrmm... North Carolina requires 2 forms of ID, which can be an older
> > Driver's license, a SS card, a military ID, a birth certificate, or
> > (you'll love this one)...   "A filled in job application"... It doesn't
> > even have to be signed by the company, or any of that shit.  I can walk
> > over to RatShack, ask for an application, fill it out as "J. E. Hoover",
> > and its a valid form of ID at the DMV.
> 
>      You forgot "The Family Bible" at least that was in effect the last
> time I was in N.C.
> 

Ah.. yes.. I knew I was forgetting (repressing?) that I live in "The Bible
Belt"... What having a minister as a parent, its an easy thing to try and
repress...

 --Deviant
No one can guarantee the actions of another.
                -- Spock, "Day of the Dove", stardate unknown


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