anon.penet.fi: URGENT REQUEST

FAO: ALL CYPHERPUNKS & COMMUNITY LIST READERS

I wish to gauge the response on something here:

Following the closure of the anon.penet.fi remailer:

If I can get enough funding to cover all expenses (I am a student and 
cannot unfortunately contribute much myself) I will install lines and 
hardware at my premises and run the equivalent to the anon.penet.fi 
remailer.

I don`t know what the response to this will be, I need approximately 
5000 UK pounds to set up such an operation (Yes, a leased line really 
does cost that much in the UK) and then a monthly income of around 
3000 UK pounds.

The service, I propose, would be free to the users, and maintained my 
by voluntary donation, no access restriction would be placed on 
non-paying users.

Please send me mail at paul@fatmans.demon.co.uk with the subject as 
ANON.PENET.FI SERVER and the message body an ammount in UK pounds or 
dollars (approximate ammounts are OK) so I can guage the response.
         NO MONEY WILL BE TAKEN AT THE PRESENT TIME.

As I said, I just want to see what teh response is like and to see if 
it would be possible, I also would be unable to set it up until I had 
some solid commintment from the people giving the money, I expect a 
large response to this and a measly one to the real appeal for hard 
cash if it goes ahead!  -  anyway, mail me and i`ll report the 
response back soon...



  Datacomms Technologies web authoring and data security
     Paul Bradley, Paul@fatmans.demon.co.uk
       Http://www.fatmans.demon.co.uk/crypt/
         "Don`t forget to mount a scratch monkey"

-----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----
Version: 2.6

mQCNAjH9j+cAAAEEAMBvREiQR0ot9dFCO0TiSCSunAYLv2g1Bc6I3bz8FzKXNH53
6mieJf/W4rD+CxJpT0q9RQaaoRtkHJLwbjfK2il3D7mEahMAyqvF/xRJNqkXfhM3
sRJM0Jh43l+W0M5vwokbEbk25/bxWWGspTsLD3YHbzKnG6pOcL5OPIRbv66xAAUR
tCdQYXVsIEJyYWRsZXkgPHBhdWxAZmF0bWFucy5kZW1vbi5jby51az4=
=riHc
-----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----

Sun, 1 Sep 1996 paul@fatmans.demon.co.uk wrote:

> I don`t know what the response to this will be, I need approximately 
> 5000 UK pounds to set up such an operation (Yes, a leased line really 
> does cost that much in the UK) and then a monthly income of around 
> 3000 UK pounds.

I remember the load on anon.penet.fi was something like 7500 messages
daily. As for connection, you will need 64kbps line or even less in case
you compress the messages. The machine could be either an older Sun Sparc
or a PC running free Unix (Linux/FreeBSD/...)

Here in Estonia 64kbps costs between 400-600 USD per month, machine would
be something like 1000-2000 USD. Still I believe someone setting up a
remailer should do so for free, from their own or company resources. The
best way would be every ISP to set up their own remailers and nym servers. 

Jüri Kaljundi
AS Stallion
jk@stallion.ee

=?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=FCri_Kaljundi?= wrote:
>  Sun, 1 Sep 1996 paul@fatmans.demon.co.uk wrote:
> 
> > I don`t know what the response to this will be, I need approximately=20
> > 5000 UK pounds to set up such an operation (Yes, a leased line really=20
> > does cost that much in the UK) and then a monthly income of around=20
> > 3000 UK pounds.
> 
> I remember the load on anon.penet.fi was something like 7500 messages
> daily. As for connection, you will need 64kbps line or even less in case
> you compress the messages. The machine could be either an older Sun Sparc
> or a PC running free Unix (Linux/FreeBSD/...)

A couple of notes: 7500 messages/day is not the accurate measure of
the load of anon.penet.fi. Remember that each messages had to 

	1) come in
	2) be processed
	3) be sent out
	4) trigger a confirmation sent to the submitter

It is not the same as a user simply receiving 7500 messages/day.

If we suppose that each message creates 10KB of IP traffic, it gives us
75MB/day. 75mb/day is less than 1KB per second. It can be handled by a
simple 28.8KBPS PPP connection which will still half the capacity to grow
twice. A second dedicated phone line and a second modem can be added
later. 

I suspect that UUCP as opposed to IP connection will work better,
because UUCP gives us a unidirectional flow of data, which is much more
efficient than modems switching direction of the transport for almost
each IP packet.

I suggest the following configuration: a IBM 486 PC with 16MB of
RAM and 28.8 modem, running qmail instead of sendmail and Linux,
on a dedicated 28.8 PPP line. The cheapest used VGA display from 
the nearby waste dump will work just fine. 

Estimated cost: $700-1000 for the system, $50-100/month for the
connection, and 3 hours per day to deal with mailbombing from
disgruntled usenet kooks like the right reverend colin james iii
(puke).

	- Igor.

! =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=FCri_Kaljundi?= wrote:
! >  Sun, 1 Sep 1996 paul@fatmans.demon.co.uk wrote:
! > 
! > > I don`t know what the response to this will be, I need approximately
! > > 5000 UK pounds to set up such an operation (Yes, a leased line really
! > > does cost that much in the UK) and then a monthly income of around
! > > 3000 UK pounds.
! > 
! > I remember the load on anon.penet.fi was something like 7500 messages
! > daily. As for connection, you will need 64kbps line or even less in case
! > you compress the messages. The machine could be either an older Sun Sparc
! > or a PC running free Unix (Linux/FreeBSD/...)
! 
! A couple of notes: 7500 messages/day is not the accurate measure of
! the load of anon.penet.fi. Remember that each messages had to 
! 
! 	1) come in
! 	2) be processed
! 	3) be sent out
! 	4) trigger a confirmation sent to the submitter

There's plenty of room for a hacker to improve the Kleinpaste derived server,
such as eliminating confirmations unless there's an error.  Queing 
should help a great deal.

! It is not the same as a user simply receiving 7500 messages/day.
! 
! If we suppose that each message creates 10KB of IP traffic, it gives us
! 75MB/day. 75mb/day is less than 1KB per second. It can be handled by a
! simple 28.8KBPS PPP connection which will still half the capacity to grow
! twice. A second dedicated phone line and a second modem can be added
! later. 
! 
! I suspect that UUCP as opposed to IP connection will work better,
! because UUCP gives us a unidirectional flow of data, which is much more
! efficient than modems switching direction of the transport for almost
! each IP packet.

The server can que the mail for a hour or so before sending it out all
at once.

! I suggest the following configuration: a IBM 486 PC with 16MB of
! RAM and 28.8 modem, running qmail instead of sendmail and Linux,

How is qmail better than sendmail?  The default BSD sendmail since 8.00+
has automated ident requests built in.  It can easily be compiled without
that default option, for greater efficiency.

! on a dedicated 28.8 PPP line. The cheapest used VGA display from 
! the nearby waste dump will work just fine. 

Hell, any monitor should work!  I'm curious about how to go about 
acquiring one of those huge 100+ x 100+ charactor terminals that linux 
supports.  Is it practical, cheap and readable?

! Estimated cost: $700-1000 for the system, $50-100/month for the
! connection, and 3 hours per day to deal with mailbombing from

ln -s /dev/null /usr/postmaster
ln -s /dev/null /usr/abuse

That should filter the mail quite nicely!  :->

BTW, do y'all have a favourite Bay Area store for used or otherwise 
affordable unice fond equiption?  Such as used Sparcs or Alphas?  Legal
copies of commercial unice software along with the equipment?  Thanks.

Someone wrote:
: ! > I remember the load on anon.penet.fi was something like 7500 messages
: ! > daily. As for connection, you will need 64kbps line or even less in case
: ! > you compress the messages. The machine could be either an older Sun Sparc
: ! > or a PC running free Unix (Linux/FreeBSD/...)

anon.penet.fi actually used a 486/66 running FreeBSD.


Dave Harman OBC (qut@netcom.com) wrote:
: ! I suggest the following configuration: a IBM 486 PC with 16MB of
: ! RAM and 28.8 modem, running qmail instead of sendmail and Linux,
:
: How is qmail better than sendmail?  The default BSD sendmail since 8.00+
: has automated ident requests built in.  It can easily be compiled without
: that default option, for greater efficiency.

Disable reverse-DNS too...

: ! on a dedicated 28.8 PPP line. The cheapest used VGA display from
: ! the nearby waste dump will work just fine.
:
: Hell, any monitor should work!

You don't need a monitor at all.  Since we're assuming that the remailer
is a dedicated machine, and you'll do your real work on another computer,
just plug a null modem cable into the serial ports and use a terminal
program on your other computer.

: ! Estimated cost: $700-1000 for the system, $50-100/month for the
: ! connection, and 3 hours per day to deal with mailbombing from

$500 tops.  8MB is probably okay, 16 might improve resistance to mailbombs
a bit tho.  You can get 486 motherboards for under $100 nowadays.
Do the math: used 486 MB+CPU: $100
                    16MB RAM: $150
            case+powersupply: $50
                    100MB HD: $20
               HD Controller: $15
      Dual 16550 Serial Card: $15
              28800bps Modem: $150
                             ------
                              $500

And if you really want to run a remailer, I can sell you most of the above,
and I'll even throw in a 340MB IDE HD with Linux+remailers preinstalled!
(Yes, I'm serious.)

ghio@netcom.com (Matthew Ghio) writes:
> $500 tops.  8MB is probably okay, 16 might improve resistance to mailbombs
> a bit tho.  You can get 486 motherboards for under $100 nowadays.
> Do the math: used 486 MB+CPU: $100
>                     16MB RAM: $150
>             case+powersupply: $50
>                     100MB HD: $20
FWIW, a very nice store in NYC called J&R (Park Row) is selling Digital
486 boxes for $600, including 16MB RAM, 540MB hd, and color monitor.
I also bought a 16MB thingie for my kid's 486 for $109.
>                HD Controller: $15
>       Dual 16550 Serial Card: $15
>               28800bps Modem: $150
I just got an internal 28.8Kbps modem (including fax) for $100.
>                              ------
>                               $500
> 
> And if you really want to run a remailer, I can sell you most of the above,
> and I'll even throw in a 340MB IDE HD with Linux+remailers preinstalled!
> (Yes, I'm serious.)

Are we talking about running a remailer over a dial-up UUCP, the way Julf did?
This box runs over dial-up UUCP on 14.4K modem, with two incoming feeds.
I may be willing to run a remailer to replace anon.penet.fi - let's discuss t
(It used to have an outgoing feed to Moscow, but not anymore. :-)

---

Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM
Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps

! I wish to gauge the response on something here:
! 
! Following the closure of the anon.penet.fi remailer:
! 
! If I can get enough funding to cover all expenses (I am a student and 
! cannot unfortunately contribute much myself) I will install lines and 
! hardware at my premises and run the equivalent to the anon.penet.fi 
! remailer.
! 
! I don`t know what the response to this will be, I need approximately 
! 5000 UK pounds to set up such an operation (Yes, a leased line really 
! does cost that much in the UK) and then a monthly income of around 
! 3000 UK pounds.

No way, dude.  You can run even an unrestricted T1 here for quite a bit
less than œ3000.  All you need though, is a flat rate dedicated 28,800 
modem connection, which has a monthly fee of about œ50-100, but we're a
little spoiled in the Bay Area.  Whatever the fees are there, you could
put up something pretty cool as a free server, and perhaps also figure
out a way to sell the excess bandwidth at a profit.

Whatever you do, stick to one of the unices like linux.  Our brief 
experiences with trying to make Windows 3.0 and Win95 useful convinced us
that nothing good can come from Micro$oft.

We're planning on starting a modem server as soon as we can get our hardware
BS problems sorted out.  We'll try installing the cypher punk goodies like
Mixmaster.  We're planning on a 100% open server that can be telnet 'ed 
into so we can be open to suggestions to improve security and solicit 
advice.

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

> I don`t know what the response to this will be, I need approximately 
> 5000 UK pounds to set up such an operation (Yes, a leased line really 
> does cost that much in the UK) and then a monthly income of around 
> 3000 UK pounds.

I have looked into UK line costs recently and I suspect that the 
suggested costs do sound perhaps a little high.  Although the set up 
cost is probably OK, I would suggest that the running costs (assuming 
that these comprise the circuit charge and payment to an ISP) could 
be less that half that quoted.  What you have been quoted may well 
depend on who you have spoken to.

Best wishes,
Matthew

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: 2.6.3i
Charset: noconv

iQCVAgUBMinwBAKwLwcHEv69AQHoGgQAllNK8eXKM6SsNmlnGBmriCklhfI9RZzC
GlgtWvTvzsN5j/qoBpWwN4K+fn+HfLScPjQ0rIB50sPTG3E53i4GDsUcTHIQEYKP
aNaaiS6ZQKtu2VCBzyyrM5UBoAqronLbBjl3U9C0UDQZ0jdaCUpVWM5qSZikGYTO
5GAWvbp5oq0=
=6ZDW
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----