Re: DL in exchange for fingerprint

At 9:13 PM 9/19/96, Gary Howland wrote:
>Timothy C. May wrote:
>>
>> (Yes, I disliked being thumb-printed, but I could see no viable
>> alternative. I'm sure Duncan has some scheme to declare himself a Botswanan
>> exchange student, but I decided being thumb-printed was the lesser hassle.)
>
>Sure, it's always less hassle doing what they want.  Privacy doesn't
>come for free.  It's easier to let the police search you in the street
>than it is to make them arrest you so that you can make a formal
>complaint.

So, just what it is _your_ method of dealing with this? While it is noble
to talk about fighting the system, just how do you go about doing it
yourself?

Do you simply drive without a valid driver's license? I know some folks who
do, of course, but it's not something that's "worth it" to me.

(This space reserved for your lecture about how I need to be prepared to go
to jail to defend my right not to be thumbprinted, etc. On second thought,
why don't you be the one to go to jail, and then you can let us know your
experiences.)


>> Paraphrasing that famous quote, just which part of "not for identification"
>> don't they understand?
>
>Hmm - who are you paraphrasing here? (Just curious).

"What part of "No" don't you understand?"

and

"What part of "Congress shall make no law" don't you understand?"

--Tim May

We got computers, we're tapping phone lines, I know that that ain't allowed.
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
tcmay@got.net  408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Higher Power: 2^1,257,787-1 | black markets, collapse of governments.
"National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."

tcmay@got.net (Timothy C. May) writes:

> So, just what it is _your_ method of dealing with this? While it is noble
> to talk about fighting the system, just how do you go about doing it
> yourself?

How about just putting your finger in a cast or splint before you
renew your license?

On Thu, 19 Sep 1996, John Anonymous MacDonald wrote:

> tcmay@got.net (Timothy C. May) writes:
 
> > So, just what it is _your_ method of dealing with this? While it is noble
> > to talk about fighting the system, just how do you go about doing it
> > yourself?
 
> How about just putting your finger in a cast or splint before you
> renew your license?

Does Nevada have the same rules as California wrt fingerprints for
driver's licenses?
 
(Of course, this concept has been rehashed a hundred times on the
list even during that fraction of its existance that I have been here).

Phil Fraering              "And the moral of the story is,
pgf@acadian.net            *never count your boobies until they
318/261-9649               are hatched*."
                            - James Thurber, "The Unicorn in the Garden"

Timothy C. May wrote:
> 
> At 9:13 PM 9/19/96, Gary Howland wrote:
> >Timothy C. May wrote:
> >>
> >> (Yes, I disliked being thumb-printed, but I could see no viable
> >> alternative. I'm sure Duncan has some scheme to declare himself a Botswanan
> >> exchange student, but I decided being thumb-printed was the lesser hassle.)
> >
> >Sure, it's always less hassle doing what they want.  Privacy doesn't
> >come for free.  It's easier to let the police search you in the street
> >than it is to make them arrest you so that you can make a formal
> >complaint.
> 
> So, just what it is _your_ method of dealing with this? While it is noble
> to talk about fighting the system, just how do you go about doing it
> yourself?

Use your imagination.  (hint: Do all states require thumbprints for
DLs?)


> (This space reserved for your lecture about how I need to be prepared to go
> to jail to defend my right not to be thumbprinted, etc. On second thought,
> why don't you be the one to go to jail, and then you can let us know your
> experiences.)

I have never seen the logic in this approach.  Sure, if it's relatively
easy to make a protest, then I'll do it, but going to jail out of
principle is certainly more hassle for me than for "them". I would
sooner demonstrate the futility of what they are trying to do, whether
it be censorship or prohibition. 


> >Hmm - who are you paraphrasing here? (Just curious).
> 
> "What part of "No" don't you understand?"

Who said it?


Gary
--
"Of course the US Constitution isn't perfect; but it's a lot better
than what we have now."  -- Unknown.

pub  1024/C001D00D 1996/01/22  Gary Howland <gary@systemics.com>
Key fingerprint =  0C FB 60 61 4D 3B 24 7D  1C 89 1D BE 1F EE 09 06

On Thu, 19 Sep 1996, Timothy C. May wrote:

> At 9:13 PM 9/19/96, Gary Howland wrote:
> >Timothy C. May wrote:
> >>
> >> (Yes, I disliked being thumb-printed, but I could see no viable
> >> alternative. I'm sure Duncan has some scheme to declare himself a Botswanan
> >> exchange student, but I decided being thumb-printed was the lesser hassle.)
> >
> >Sure, it's always less hassle doing what they want.  Privacy doesn't
> >come for free.  It's easier to let the police search you in the street
> >than it is to make them arrest you so that you can make a formal
> >complaint.
> 
> So, just what it is _your_ method of dealing with this? While it is noble
> to talk about fighting the system, just how do you go about doing it
> yourself?

Forum shopping.

Not that I would encourage you to break the law, but this method appears
to work quite well.

Get P.O. Box in state which issues DL's on the spot w/o fingerprinting.
Write yourself a letter in very light pencil to this P.O. box.
Get postmarked letter and erase the address.
Replace address with address of local sports stadium or empty lot in pen
complete with return address.

This letter is often accepted as proof of address and residence.
Use the rest of your documents as normal to obtain driver's license in the
state of your choice.

> Do you simply drive without a valid driver's license? I know some folks who
> do, of course, but it's not something that's "worth it" to me.

Some jurisdictions (D.C. is a good example) are such a joke it's not
funny.  An associate of mine literally MADE his own Italian Driver's
license and turned it in, took an eye test, and walked out with a nice new
D.C. license.

Who the hell knows what an italian license looks like?

> (This space reserved for your lecture about how I need to be prepared to go
> to jail to defend my right not to be thumbprinted, etc. On second thought,
> why don't you be the one to go to jail, and then you can let us know your
> experiences.)

I was once standing in line at a DMV where some schmuck was clearly trying
to work his way past the "guardian" with bogus documents.
They just shook their head, despite his repeated protests.  No one has the
time to muck around with cops in there.

Even if they did, you are just getting a license with a bogus address, not
a bogus name or anything.  It's a pretty hard case to make.

Point being that it does require effort, but it also pays off.  (For seven
years in the right jurisdictions).

[...]

> --Tim May
> 
> We got computers, we're tapping phone lines, I know that that ain't allowed.
> ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
> Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
> tcmay@got.net  408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
> W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
> Higher Power: 2^1,257,787-1 | black markets, collapse of governments.
> "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 

--
I hate lightning - finger for public key - Vote Monarchist
unicorn@schloss.li

Black Unicorn <unicorn@schloss.li> writes:
> > Do you simply drive without a valid driver's license? I know some folks who
> > do, of course, but it's not something that's "worth it" to me.
>
> Some jurisdictions (D.C. is a good example) are such a joke it's not
> funny.  An associate of mine literally MADE his own Italian Driver's
> license and turned it in, took an eye test, and walked out with a nice new
> D.C. license.

In NYC a very high percentage of drivers don't have licences, have suspended
licences, etc. Generally no one has the time to bother with them unless they
want to nail them for something else. A couple of years ago we were involved in
a minor car accident with a Chassidic Jew who tried to leave the scene of the
accident. My wife chased him and stopped him. :-) The cops came and discovered
that he had no papers (including no driver's licence, no insurance, etc). They
gave him about $500 worth of tickets for driving without a licence, leaving the
scene of an accident, etc (which I rather doubt he was planning to pay) and let
him drive on (still without the licence).

---

Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM
Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps