Re: Bernstein hearing: The Press Release

At 2:23 PM 9/23/96, Declan McCullagh wrote:
>On Sun, 22 Sep 1996, Timothy C. May wrote:
>
>> If California were to, say, ban speech critical of women's or homosexual's
>> rights, would not the First Amendment trump this attempt?
>
>Not necessarily.
>
>The Supreme Court has upheld Title VII's ban on workplace "harassment."
>The Court said it occured when "discriminatory intimidation, ridicule, and
>insult" in a workplace create an uncomfortable "working environment."
>
>Then there's public accomodation law, under which the (I recall) Greek
>owner of a privately-operated diner was held liable for using the word
>"nigger" where a black woman could overhear.

Whoops! I didn't mean to intersect with "workplace" issues--I mean simple,
pure, nonworkplace-related speech.

To make this clearer and to separate Title VII stuff out:

If California were to, say, ban speech which included the word "orange," or
to ban speech which mentioned "Allah," wouldn't the First trump this
attempt?

As to Title VII and all that garbage, I think the First Amendment means
what it says, and that there's something desperately wrong when many blacks
call each other "niggers," as in "Yo, Nigga!," but nonblacks can be hit
with lawsuits for letting this word slip out.

By the way, I just read chunks of Ronald Dworkin's new book on the
Constitution, and he makes some interesting comments on the feminist view
that words hurtful to women ought to be censored...he's against such
interpretations, and argues that if speech hurtful to women, or images
hurtful to women, etc., are banned, then why not ban speech critical of
Creationists, and speech insulting to Flat Earthers?

--Tim May


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On Mon, 23 Sep 1996, Timothy C. May wrote:

> Whoops! I didn't mean to intersect with "workplace" issues--I mean simple,
> pure, nonworkplace-related speech.

As long as the person that you are speaking to is employed in any way,
workplace issues apply. Even if you talk to the person after work and away
from their place of employment. The courts have ruled that the speech does
not have to occur at the workplace to be prohibited. All that is required
is that the person is affected at the workplace. 

Yes, you can be sued for sexual harrasment for trying to pick up a
stranger in a bar, should that stranger still feel bothered by your
advances while at work the next day. 

The courts have ruled,

--Lucky

Lucky Green wrote:
>
> Yes, you can be sued for sexual harrasment for trying to pick up a
> stranger in a bar, should that stranger still feel bothered by your
> advances while at work the next day.
> 
> The courts have ruled,

To paraphrase the probably-great Charles Haynes, "my bullshit meter 
is jiggling up near the red line".  Is there really a case of a person
being convicted of workplace sexual harassment against somebody they
didn't work with?



[ Yes, I realize that civil law makes very little sense sometimes. ]

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On Mon, 23 Sep 1996, Mike McNally wrote:

> Lucky Green wrote:
> >
> > Yes, you can be sued for sexual harrasment for trying to pick up a
> > stranger in a bar, should that stranger still feel bothered by your
> > advances while at work the next day.
> > 
> > The courts have ruled,
> 
> To paraphrase the probably-great Charles Haynes, "my bullshit meter 
> is jiggling up near the red line".  Is there really a case of a person
> being convicted of workplace sexual harassment against somebody they
> didn't work with?

Not that I am aware of. But the test *clearly* is how it makes you feel 
once at work, regardless of other circumstances.

--Lucky