Hallam-Baker demands more repudiations or he'll write!

At 2:10 AM 9/24/96, hallam@vesuvius.ai.mit.edu wrote:

>like Markof are somewhat more responsible. This is not going to stop me
>from producing an op-ed piece linkiing the net libertarians to assasination
>politics unless I hear a few more repudiations of Bell's ideas. If you
>don't very clearly reject his murderous ideas you are going to regret it
>just as the left regreted having the USSR or the RAF associated with them.

I for one don't respond well to extortion threats, so write your damned article.

--Tim May

We got computers, we're tapping phone lines, I know that that ain't allowed.
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
tcmay@got.net  408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Higher Power: 2^1,257,787-1 | black markets, collapse of governments.
"National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."

Mr. May wrote:
> At 2:10 AM 9/24/96, hallam@vesuvius.ai.mit.edu wrote:
> >like Markof are somewhat more responsible. This is not going to stop me
> >from producing an op-ed piece linkiing the net libertarians to assasination
> >politics unless I hear a few more repudiations of Bell's ideas. If you
> >don't very clearly reject his murderous ideas you are going to regret it
> >just as the left regreted having the USSR or the RAF associated with them.
> I for one don't respond well to extortion threats, so write your damned article.

    I agree with Mr. May, and I will go so far as you call you a coward and
a thoroughly lousy human being. 

    I don't LIKE the idea of AP being necessary, and I am hoping that things
get better before someone get's desperate enough to implement it.

    On the other hand, I like living in a cage of someone elses making. If
I choose to restrict my life, it is mine to restrict. I don't want you to 
have that ability. 

    You obviously come from a family that believes it is Ok to "Rule" people.

    I wrote some fairly hostile shit about you and your family, but that 
is pretty irrelevant to this list, so I disgarded it.

    I will, however, say that you are a bloody fascist peice of work. 

Petro, Christopher C.
petro@suba.com <prefered for any non-list stuff>
snow@smoke.suba.com

At 10:24 pm -0400 9/26/96, Timothy C. May wrote:

> Any, I had several e-mail exchanges (in private) with Phill on this
> subject, and I hardly think he's a "thoroughly lousy human being."


Let me first say that I have my Mac Eudora filters set so that if any
message contains Phill's e-mail address and cypherpunks it goes straight to
the trash.

Sorry, Phill, but most of what you say here only raises my blood pressure,
so I'd rather not read it, or any of the justifiable but predictable
responses people have here to it.

Having said that, I do not bozo-filter Phill anywhere else on the net.

The reason is, he makes valuable contributions to lists like micropay
(which he started), or dcsb (which he is a founding member of), or any
other non-political discussion he's in. With the exception of politics, in
my opinion, he is *not* clueless.

More to the point, Phill even shows up at DCSB meetings, and I think he's a
nice guy, and I like to think that I can call him a friend.

However, I also think that Phill has this passion for order that sometimes
borders on the pathological. Maybe because, like Bertrand Russell (who
Phill and I both admire) says, romanticism, leftism and communism are
basically feudalism in disguise, and Phill's a closet aristocrat. ;-).
Maybe not.

I think what we see as his blustering trolls on this list come from
passion. But, I don't think they're trolls at all. I think they show, more
often than not, his outrage at the way the world's going to go. Which,
obviously, is *our* way, and not his. He knows very well the power of the
technology we talk about here, and deep down, I think he knows we're right.

Phill, and Dorothy Denning, and David Sternlight, and other smart, nice (I
haven't met Sternlight), and otherwise clueful people like them, are all
living in a state of heavy denial right now, and they're very articulate
about it. :-). I figure the best way to give them room is to just filter
them out in places where they disturb me, and get on with the business of
proving them wrong.

They'll wake up. Everybody will, sooner or later.

Cheers,
Bob Hettinga




-----------------
Robert Hettinga (rah@shipwright.com)
e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"'Bart Bucks' are not legal tender."
                -- Punishment, 100 times on a chalkboard,
                       for Bart Simpson
The e$ Home Page: http://www.vmeng.com/rah/

you are absolutely right, as difficult as it is to remain
passively  disengaged from annoying mosquitos....

wrong:

        sorry Phill for my criticisms, but you're still fucking
clueless...

right:




--
  "To what do you owe your success in acting?"
    "Honesty.  Once you've learned how to fake that, you've got it
made."

>Mr. May wrote:
>> At 2:10 AM 9/24/96, hallam@vesuvius.ai.mit.edu wrote:
>> >like Markof are somewhat more responsible. This is not going to stop me
>> >from producing an op-ed piece linkiing the net libertarians to assasination
>> >politics unless I hear a few more repudiations of Bell's ideas. If you
>> >don't very clearly reject his murderous ideas you are going to regret it
>> >just as the left regreted having the USSR or the RAF associated with them.
>> I for one don't respond well to extortion threats, so write your damned
>>article.
>
>    I agree with Mr. May, and I will go so far as you call you a coward and
>a thoroughly lousy human being.

Now, now, let's not overreact. I named this thread, and yet I think even I
was going too far. That is, I was just making the point that Phill's call
for us to write denunciations or he would write an essay linking
libertarians and cypherpunks to AP smacked to me of a kind of extortion.

Any, I had several e-mail exchanges (in private) with Phill on this
subject, and I hardly think he's a "thoroughly lousy human being."

I disagree with many of his political beliefs, he no doubt disagrees with
many of mine (and even "ours," collectively), and in this particular case,
his "extortion" was a mistake.

I say we move on.

--Tim May

We got computers, we're tapping phone lines, I know that that ain't allowed.
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
tcmay@got.net  408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Higher Power: 2^1,257,787-1 | black markets, collapse of governments.
"National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."

Timothy C. May wrote:
> 
> At 2:10 AM 9/24/96, hallam@vesuvius.ai.mit.edu wrote:
> 
> >like Markof are somewhat more responsible. This is not going to stop me
> >from producing an op-ed piece linkiing the net libertarians to assasination
> >politics unless I hear a few more repudiations of Bell's ideas. If you
> >don't very clearly reject his murderous ideas you are going to regret it
> >just as the left regreted having the USSR or the RAF associated with them.
> 
> I for one don't respond well to extortion threats, so write your damned article.

Seconded.

You know, the real problem with the average blackmailer is that they
rarely give you the offer as a legal document - if we fulfil our side of
the bargain, how can we be sure he fulfils his, and doesn't change his
mind next time someone half agrees with a pro
AP/Legal-blackmail/Tax-haven/Libertarian-state/freedom-of-speech/whatever
post?  We obviously need some sort of legal contract to solve this
problem, but no, that's not possible in most countries, is it?.  How
convenient.  Till next time Phill ...

Gary
--
"Of course the US Constitution isn't perfect; but it's a lot better
than what we have now."  -- Unknown.

pub  1024/C001D00D 1996/01/22  Gary Howland <gary@systemics.com>
Key fingerprint =  0C FB 60 61 4D 3B 24 7D  1C 89 1D BE 1F EE 09 06