NODE d31d115fComments on binding cryptography (1)
"Bert-Jaap Koops" <E.J.Koops@kub.nl>Wed, 16 Oct 1996 08:28:10 -0700 (PDT)
Apologies for not reacting earlier; I have been away for six days.
I found many reactions to the posting on binding cryptograhpy
in my mail box, which I have read with interest.
Here are my comments, excuse me if they are lengthy.
First and foremost, I want to stress that the proposal primarily
addresses the issue of providing information security. It does not
want to solve the problem of criminals using encryption.
I hope the following analogy may clear this (but please don't stretch
the analogy too far).
The government wants to offer citizens good transport, so they make
public roads. Because some citizens endanger others through drunk
driving, the government makes the rule that if you want to drive a
car, you must be sober. If you want to drive on the public road, fine, don't
drink. If you want to drink, fine, take a bike or cab or use public
transport.
Now, the binding cryptography proposal wants to provide law-abiding
citizens with good crypto. (I'm currently not using any, because I
don't have an easy to use and reliable system.) A government may
establish an infrastructure for good crypto (like the public roads),
with the requirement that you keep to the "binding" rule (like "don't
drive drunk"). If you don't want to use the binding cryptography,
fine, use another system (take a bike or cab). The system will not
prevent criminals from using cryptography - it isn't meant to.
Yes, criminals can use superencryption or other (mutually agreed upon)
ways to use the system and yet be out of law-enforcement's reach,
but they might as well use PGP in the first place. I do not want to see PGP
outlawed, and I do not want to have PGP use be regarded as
suspicious (just as I don't think it is suspicious if you take a cab
late at night). Setting up a good information security structure can
very well be compatible with having other means of information
security.
You ask why should the government offer good crypto, when it's
already available? I think that cypherpunks are not average - they
know about crypto and they can use it. The majority of the citizens,
however, do not use crypto, because they don't understand it and
because there's no easy-to-use and reliable standard. If the
government were to offer this, it would make a difference to many
people.
Then, you say, it affects my privacy. As far as I see it, it does
not. The binding cryptography system allows regular monitoring for
compliance (like road police checking whether people are sober). It
does not involve reading of messages. The only time messages are read
is when law-enforcement agencies (LEAs) have a warrant and ask a TRP
to hand over a session key. This is not fundamentally different from the
present situation, where LEAs can wiretap with a warrant. Privacy
will be protected more or less to the same extent as presently.
If you don't agree with governments having the possibility of
intercepting communications anyway, OK, that's your opinion. I have
another opinion, and we needn't discuss further - this is not the
issue.
Then, if you say you don't trust your government, OK, I can see a
point. Generally, I notice a difference between US and Europe in our
views on the role of governments. That is legitimate, and something
for each to discuss domestically.
(Yes, Alex, IRT-gate is a good point, but at least it has led to a critical
investigation by parliament and a more critical attitude with our
judges in judging investigation methods.)
(And Allen, if binding cryptography helps totalitarian governments in
arbitrarily monitoring all communications, I oppose this. China uses
video cameras in Lhasa to monitor potential demonstrations of Tibetans.
I oppose this, and I blame the Chinese government for it, not the
inventor of video cameras.)
I feel at least that allowing TRPs to decrypt single communications
if the LEA has a court warrant is better protection than escrowing my
private key with the government. Also, choosing your own TRP allows
you better protection than having to use a government-chosen one. On
the other hand, I think there should be some regulation on TRPs, if
only to address liability issues. I think a government certification
of TRPs would not be a bad thing, if this is done in an open,
flexible and preferably independent way - for instance a
semi-govenmental "TRP approving authority" (the same way we have data
protection authorities who monitor compliance with data protection
legislation). Again, we may have different opinions on this given the
difference between US and Europe.
Someone pointed out that a TRP could be corrupted and collaborate
with the law-enforcement agencies. Then, all sessions would be read
by the LEA. Indeed, this is a threat to be taken into account. At
least the binding alternative is better protection against
collaborating TRPs than key-escrow, as at least it leaves
communications from before the corruption unharmed. Moreover, the
system allow easy change of TRP, so the moment you notice something
weird about this TRP, you choose another one. It's really a matter of
trust.
Finally, I get the impression that some cypherpunks feel the
law-enforcement problem to be a problem of "them" as opposed to us. I
- and this is my personal opinion - feel it is "my" problem as well.
I live in a society with which I am generally satisfied, not the
least because we have a rule of law. Tracing criminals is my concern
as well. I am not happy that, in some ways, I have to give up some
freedom, but I think it is worth while. I would not mind using a
government-offered crypto system that uses binding cryptography. All
I want is that it is a good system and I want to be sure I trust my TRP.
I would prefer it if no such system were needed, but if it helps in
protecting me from criminals, I can live with it.
Bert-Jaap
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Bert-Jaap Koops tel +31 13 466 8101
Center for Law, Administration and facs +31 13 466 8149
Informatization, Tilburg University e-mail E.J.Koops@kub.nl
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NODE d0422247Re: Comments on binding cryptography (1)
Dale Thorn <dthorn@gte.net>Fri, 18 Oct 1996 00:04:56 -0700 (PDT)
Bert-Jaap Koops wrote:
> Apologies for not reacting earlier; I have been away for six days.
> I found many reactions to the posting on binding cryptograhpy
> in my mail box, which I have read with interest.
> Here are my comments, excuse me if they are lengthy.
[snip]
> Then, you say, it affects my privacy. As far as I see it, it does
> not. The binding cryptography system allows regular monitoring for
> compliance (like road police checking whether people are sober). It
> does not involve reading of messages. The only time messages are read
> is when law-enforcement agencies (LEAs) have a warrant and ask a TRP
> to hand over a session key. This is not fundamentally different from
> the present situation, where LEAs can wiretap with a warrant. Privacy
> will be protected more or less to the same extent as presently.
Seems to me there's a difference between "the only time messages are
read" and "the only time messages are *supposed* to be read". Since
Bert says the former, you have to wonder... And as far as "regular
monitoring for compliance" goes, does the Post Office monitor first
class mail now ("regular monitoring")? Do they have a monitoring law
besides the ability to open letters with a warrant?
[snip]
> (And Allen, if binding cryptography helps totalitarian governments in
> arbitrarily monitoring all communications, I oppose this.
I hate to be rude Bert, but for the zillionth time, what you oppose is
entire irrelevant to this subject, unless you are *the* decision maker
in designing binding crypto products and making attendant regulations.
> China uses video cameras in Lhasa to monitor potential demonstrations
> of Tibetans. I oppose this, and I blame the Chinese government for it,
> not the inventor of video cameras.)
Well, Bert, who do you blame for the mass of cameras going up all over
Los Angeles? (Not to mention small, neighborhood microwave transceivers)
> I feel at least that allowing TRPs to decrypt single communications
> if the LEA has a court warrant is better protection than escrowing my
> private key with the government. Also, choosing your own TRP allows
> you better protection than having to use a government-chosen one. On
> the other hand, I think there should be some regulation on TRPs, if
> only to address liability issues. I think a government certification
> of TRPs would not be a bad thing, if this is done in an open,
> flexible and preferably independent way - for instance a
> semi-govenmental "TRP approving authority" (the same way we have data
> protection authorities who monitor compliance with data protection
> legislation). Again, we may have different opinions on this given the
> difference between US and Europe.
In the U.S., there's a thoroughly-implemented concept called co-opting,
well described in senate hearings on intelligence circa 1974-1976.
Fortunately, you were able in the above paragraph to get past the
"choosing your own TRP" clause, and show the real cards. So where in
the U.S. are you gonna get TRP's who will not *ever* "leak" your files
to an interested agency without proper warrant?
> Someone pointed out that a TRP could be corrupted and collaborate
> with the law-enforcement agencies. Then, all sessions would be read
> by the LEA. Indeed, this is a threat to be taken into account.
Whoops! Looks like I spoke too soon.
> At least the binding alternative is better protection against
> collaborating TRPs than key-escrow, as at least it leaves
> communications from before the corruption unharmed. Moreover, the
> system allow easy change of TRP, so the moment you notice something
> weird about this TRP, you choose another one. It's really a matter of
> trust.
And which trust is that, Bert? They sure as hell don't trust us, now do
they? And unless you can show exactly where and when the "corruption"
occurred, how do you know what was compromised?
> Finally, I get the impression that some cypherpunks feel the
> law-enforcement problem to be a problem of "them" as opposed to us. I
> - and this is my personal opinion - feel it is "my" problem as well.
> I live in a society with which I am generally satisfied, not the
> least because we have a rule of law. Tracing criminals is my concern
> as well. I am not happy that, in some ways, I have to give up some
> freedom, but I think it is worth while. I would not mind using a
> government-offered crypto system that uses binding cryptography. All
> I want is that it is a good system and I want to be sure I trust my TRP.
> I would prefer it if no such system were needed, but if it helps in
> protecting me from criminals, I can live with it.
How does it protect from criminals? Only non-criminals (or extremely
stupid criminals) will submit their data to a third party.
One principle you should keep in mind, Bert, and that is that
cypherpunks are not merely paranoid (paranoia as a Way Of Knowing),
they're very adept at telling you exactly how the criminals and
terrorists will get around this hokum, and you're in denial about it.