Car Rental: Refusal to take Check Cards

Curious about this policy I went out to rent a few cars this week with a
new check card from a local D.C. bank.

Here were my results:

Avis: Refused
Hertz: Refused initally, but accepted after coaxing
Thrifty: Refused
National: Refused
Alamo: Refused, got quite impolite after coaxing
Enterprise: Accepted, but only because the teller barely spoke english
Dollar: Closed

The policy seems to be well entrenched.  A few calls and some phone
jockying finally produced an explanation from Richard Vine, Assistant to
Edward L. McCarty the President and General Manager of Enterprise
Rent-A-Car.

According to him:

When the customer rents a car and uses a normal credit card, the
Rent-a-Car company "reserves" the funds which are essentially "In limbo."
By requesting an authorization from e.g., Visa for a certain amount, that
amount is deducted from the credit line of the customer.  The customer
cannot spend it away and it is essentially "reserved" for the rental car
company.  The rental car company, should they be forced to try and collect
funds, essentially has an option on the funds (a security interest in the
credit of the consumer?)

Check cards suffer from a few defects from the view of car rental
companies.

1.  The customer can stop payment on a charge.
Although I pointed out that a customer can likewise stop payment on a
credit charge, it appears that while the credit card issuers must adhere
to a standard requirement for dispute resolution (between merchant and
issuing bank) check cards often have no standard dispute resolution system
or no system at all.  This leaves the recourse to negotiations between
rental car company and consumer.  This often results in collection
procedures.  (Read, expensive)

2.  The customer can spend down the account entirely before the payment is
posted.
This cannot be done with credit cards as a portion of the credit line is
"authorized but not processed."

Essentially the rental car companies are concerned that they may never be
paid.  It seems check cards have been the subject of much abuse in this
field.  Check cards do not provide for instant clearing as far as I can
tell.  I think check cards simply give the account number to the
merchant's machine and then a "check" is printed out on the spot and
signed by the customer.  As far as I can tell, the transaction still
requires processing, even if it is a bit more automated.

One would assume that on the spot clearing methods (digital cash) would
solve this problem.  Just TRY, however, to rent a car with real cash.

I pointed out "Many check cards don't necessarily look like check cards,
how are you dealing with that?"

Answer: "We're working on it."

Cash is dead.

(The good news is that I had 2 rental cars to play with for the day.
Haven't yet decided if I should take the $200 out of my checking card
account before the transactions post).

--
I hate lightning - finger for public key - Vote Monarchist
unicorn@schloss.li

Black Unicorn <unicorn@schloss.li> writes:
<a bunch of very interesting stuff>
> Although I pointed out that a customer can likewise stop payment on a
> credit charge, it appears that while the credit card issuers must adhere
> to a standard requirement for dispute resolution (between merchant and
> issuing bank) check cards often have no standard dispute resolution system
> or no system at all.  This leaves the recourse to negotiations between
> rental car company and consumer.  This often results in collection
> procedures.  (Read, expensive)

If the customer has a dispute with the merchant and follows certain
procedures, s/he has a great many rights. S/he gives up those rights
by not following the proper procedures. Most people don't realize this
when they have a dispute.

...
> One would assume that on the spot clearing methods (digital cash) would
> solve this problem.  Just TRY, however, to rent a car with real cash.

The folks who blew up the World Trade Center rented their van with cash.

---

Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM
Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps

On Sat, 19 Oct 1996, Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM wrote:

> Black Unicorn <unicorn@schloss.li> writes:
> <a bunch of very interesting stuff>
> > Although I pointed out that a customer can likewise stop payment on a
> > credit charge, it appears that while the credit card issuers must adhere
> > to a standard requirement for dispute resolution (between merchant and
> > issuing bank) check cards often have no standard dispute resolution system
> > or no system at all.  This leaves the recourse to negotiations between
> > rental car company and consumer.  This often results in collection
> > procedures.  (Read, expensive)
> 
> If the customer has a dispute with the merchant and follows certain
> procedures, s/he has a great many rights. S/he gives up those rights
> by not following the proper procedures. Most people don't realize this
> when they have a dispute.
> 
> ...
> > One would assume that on the spot clearing methods (digital cash) would
> > solve this problem.  Just TRY, however, to rent a car with real cash.
> 
> The folks who blew up the World Trade Center rented their van with cash.

I said car.  It's very difficult.

No one really wants to steal those big yellow vans.  For some reason theft
or damage of of those is not a serious problem and a good portion of their
business is students moving who do not have estlablished credit yet.

Go try it out.  Renting cars with cash, while possible, is extremely
difficult.

> 
> ---
> 
> Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM
> Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps
> 

--
I hate lightning - finger for public key - Vote Monarchist
unicorn@schloss.li

Mr. Vulis said:
> Black Unicorn <unicorn@schloss.li> writes:
> > One would assume that on the spot clearing methods (digital cash) would
> > solve this problem.  Just TRY, however, to rent a car with real cash.
> The folks who blew up the World Trade Center rented their van with cash.

     Which is probably one of the reasons that you can no longer do things
like that.

Petro, Christopher C.
petro@suba.com <prefered for any non-list stuff>
snow@smoke.suba.com

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                          SANDY SANDFORT
 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

C'punks,

On Sat, 19 Oct 1996, Black Unicorn wrote:
 
> Curious about this policy I went out to rent a few cars this
> week with a new check card from a local D.C. bank.
> 
> Here were my results:
> 
> Avis: Refused
> Hertz: Refused initally, but accepted after coaxing
> Thrifty: Refused
> National: Refused
> Alamo: Refused, got quite impolite after coaxing
> Enterprise: Accepted, but only because the teller barely spoke english
> Dollar: Closed

In San Francisco, my experience has been different.  I have used
a Visa debit (check) card to rent cars from both Enterprise and
Thrifty (and maybe Dollar, I don't remember how I paid for that
one).  No one even blinked.  (It's a "gold" debit card, but I 
doubt that makes any difference.)  Maybe it's a regional thing.

> Just TRY, however, to rent a car with real cash.
> ...
> Cash is dead.

TRUE STORY--I've used cash to rent vehicles a couple of times,
though not recently.  The most interesting was on a trip to 
Arizona a dozen years, or so, ago.  I flew into Phoenix and
needed transportation up to Flagstaff.  I didn't have ANY credit
cards at the time.

When I went to the car rental counter, I didn't mention my lack
of credit cards before the young woman behind the counter had
filled out all the forms.  I wanted her to have an investment in
the transaction.  When she asked for my credit card, I told her
I didn't have one and would make a cash deposit.  I had plenty of
extra cash for that purpose.  Evidently, she had never done a 
cash transaction.  She told me that I would have to make a 
deposit of $30 (!) and would need two forms of photo ID.

Well, I had a California license and no other official ID.  I 
asked her if a company ID would suffice.  When she said it would,
I pulled out the "Bank Courier" ID card I had made with my own
two little hands.  It had my signature, description, photo and 
this legend on the back:

	"This identification not valid without 
	  red bank seal stamped on reverse."

Tho rental clerk read the legend, turned the card over, saw the
faint red bank seal stamp, nodded her head and processes the
rental agreement.

For $30, I was the keys for a brand new car worth thousands of 
dollars.  I was within 200 driving miles of the Mexican border.
After I drove away, I realized that the woman had been so 
flustered by the cash transaction that she had forgotten to have
me sign the rental agreement.  (Upon returning the car the next
day, I pointed out the omission to her and asked if she would 
like for me to sign then.  In a low conspiratorial voice she 
ernestly asked me to do so.  Life is strange.


 S a n d y

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

On Sun, 20 Oct 1996, Sandy Sandfort wrote:

> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>                           SANDY SANDFORT
>  . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
> 
> C'punks,
> 
> On Sat, 19 Oct 1996, Black Unicorn wrote:
>  
> > Curious about this policy I went out to rent a few cars this
> > week with a new check card from a local D.C. bank.
> > 
> > Here were my results:
> > 
> > Avis: Refused
> > Hertz: Refused initally, but accepted after coaxing
> > Thrifty: Refused
> > National: Refused
> > Alamo: Refused, got quite impolite after coaxing
> > Enterprise: Accepted, but only because the teller barely spoke english
> > Dollar: Closed
> 
> In San Francisco, my experience has been different.  I have used
> a Visa debit (check) card to rent cars from both Enterprise and
> Thrifty (and maybe Dollar, I don't remember how I paid for that
> one).  No one even blinked.  (It's a "gold" debit card, but I 
> doubt that makes any difference.)  Maybe it's a regional thing.

I think it might be.  Many of the D.C. and Virginia rental agencies I
tried had big signs indiciating they didn't accept check/debit cards.
(Note that the minimum age for car rental varies by region too, suggesting
that corporate policy adjusts to the market needs/risks).

> > Just TRY, however, to rent a car with real cash.
> > ...
> > Cash is dead.
> 
> TRUE STORY--I've used cash to rent vehicles a couple of times,
> though not recently.

[...]

> For $30, I was the keys for a brand new car worth thousands of 
> dollars.  I was within 200 driving miles of the Mexican border.
> After I drove away, I realized that the woman had been so 
> flustered by the cash transaction that she had forgotten to have
> me sign the rental agreement.  (Upon returning the car the next
> day, I pointed out the omission to her and asked if she would 
> like for me to sign then.  In a low conspiratorial voice she 
> ernestly asked me to do so.  Life is strange.

Yes, I managed to entirely controvert the "no check card" policy at
Enterprise because the teller was clueless.  Unfortunately, depending on
this kind of thing if you have no credit card can be tricky.

> 
>  S a n d y
> 

--
I hate lightning - finger for public key - Vote Monarchist
unicorn@schloss.li

I don't know about car, but I had been able to rent bicycles and roller
blades (2 other viable forms of transportations) with no difficulty
at all using cash. They did not even ask for a credit card at all.

Only once did they ask for a credit card, but they did not run anything
through or make any calls when I checked the bike out; when I returned
it, they gave me the original credit card slip (plus all copies) when
I gave them cash to settle. 

If I wanted to, I could have run the credit card account dry and then 
rode off to nowhere. The bike was probably worth 1000 to 1500 dollars.

Mark Allyn
allyn@allyn.com