LET'S MEET DIMITRI

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                          SANDY SANDFORT
 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

Bay Area Cypherpunks,

I am hereby pledging US$100 towards a fund to fly Dimitri to the
SF Bay area for a Cypherpunk meeting.  I certainly would like to
meet a real cryptographer, and I'm sure many of you would too.
We should throw in a hotel room and local transportation as well.  
I want Dimitri to be our featured speaker--his choice of topic, 
of course.

I am ABSOLUTELY serious in this offer, but I will need donations
from other Cypherpunks.  If I get sufficient pledges to cover 
Dimitri's travel expenses, I will coordinate with Dimitri and
make the necessary travel and hotel arrangements.

Dimitri, what say you?  Are you willing in flying to California 
to address the Mother of All Cypherpunk Meetings?  I hope so.
I'm sure it would be one of our most highly attended meetings.


 S a n d y

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

WOW!   Dimitri as the featured roast, Dean Martin style, would be
    enough for me to seriously consider leaving my high desert Utah
    safe house!  

  "Circus?  Why would I want to go to the circus?. 
      Dimitri is the featured speaker at SF CP Mtg!"

        (apologies to Will Rogers)

--
  Truth is always stranger than fiction,
    and the line between is perception.

On Thu, 10 Oct 1996, Sandy Sandfort wrote:

> Bay Area Cypherpunks,
> 
> I am hereby pledging US$100 towards a fund to fly Dimitri to the
> SF Bay area for a Cypherpunk meeting.  I certainly would like to
> meet a real cryptographer, and I'm sure many of you would too.
> We should throw in a hotel room and local transportation as well.  
> I want Dimitri to be our featured speaker--his choice of topic, 
> of course.
> 
> I am ABSOLUTELY serious in this offer, but I will need donations
> from other Cypherpunks.  If I get sufficient pledges to cover 
> Dimitri's travel expenses, I will coordinate with Dimitri and
> make the necessary travel and hotel arrangements.
> 
> Dimitri, what say you?  Are you willing in flying to California 
> to address the Mother of All Cypherpunk Meetings?  I hope so.
> I'm sure it would be one of our most highly attended meetings.

I hereby pledge $50. :)  Now who is funding the baseball bat committee on 
this same topic? :)

=============================================================================
 + ^ + |  Ray Arachelian    |FL|       KAOS KERAUNOS KYBERNETOS      |==/|\==
  \|/  |sunder@brainlink.com|UL|__Nothing_is_true,_all_is_permitted!_|=/\|/\=
<--+-->| ------------------ |CG|What part of 'Congress shall make no |=\/|\/=
  /|\  | "A toast to Odin,  |KA| law abridging the freedom of speech'|==\|/==
 + v + |  God of pretzles!" |AK|        do you not understand?       |=======
===================http://www.brainlink.COM/~sunder/=========================
           ActiveX! ActiveX! Format Hard drive? Just say yes!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                          SANDY SANDFORT
 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

C'punks,

On Thu, 10 Oct 1996, Ray Arachelian wrote:

> I hereby pledge $50. :)  Now who is funding the baseball bat
> committee on this same topic? :)

Thanks you Ray.  Now who's next?


 S a n d y

P.S.	Regretably, if Dimitri has big enough 'nads to
	take us up on this offer, as my guest, he will
	be under the mantle of my protection.  Therefore,
	no kinetic, edged or energy weapons allowed.
 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

On Thu, 10 Oct 1996, Sandy Sandfort wrote:

> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> 
> P.S.	Regretably, if Dimitri has big enough 'nads to
> 	take us up on this offer, as my guest, he will
> 	be under the mantle of my protection.  Therefore,
> 	no kinetic, edged or energy weapons allowed.
>  
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I doubt he's got the nads.  He'd take the money and run, or take the 
ticket and get a refund or something.  so if all those weapons are out of 
the way, that leaves biological weaponry.  This means that we have to 
find someone who's got a really bad case of the flu to shake his hands, 
right? :)

=============================================================================
 + ^ + |  Ray Arachelian    |FL|       KAOS KERAUNOS KYBERNETOS      |==/|\==
  \|/  |sunder@brainlink.com|UL|__Nothing_is_true,_all_is_permitted!_|=/\|/\=
<--+-->| ------------------ |CG|What part of 'Congress shall make no |=\/|\/=
  /|\  | "A toast to Odin,  |KA| law abridging the freedom of speech'|==\|/==
 + v + |  God of pretzles!" |AK|        do you not understand?       |=======
===================http://www.brainlink.COM/~sunder/=========================
           ActiveX! ActiveX! Format Hard drive? Just say yes!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                          SANDY SANDFORT
 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

C'punks,

On Thu, 10 Oct 1996, Ray Arachelian wrote:

> I doubt he's got the nads.  He'd take the money and run, or take the 
> ticket and get a refund or something. 

That will not be allowed to happen.

> so if all those weapons are out of the way, that leaves
> biological weaponry.

No Ray.  No weapons of any sort.  He gets this one for free.


 S a n d y

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

On Thu, 10 Oct 1996, Sandy Sandfort wrote:

> I am hereby pledging US$100 towards a fund to fly Dimitri to the
> SF Bay area for a Cypherpunk meeting.  I certainly would like to
> meet a real cryptographer, and I'm sure many of you would too.
> We should throw in a hotel room and local transportation as well.  
> I want Dimitri to be our featured speaker--his choice of topic, 
> of course.

It's strange that all this stuff with Dimitri has reached the level that
it has.  I don't know how many CPers finally made it for INFOWARCON in DC
last month, but I was pleasantly surprised to find that, in addition to
myself, there were several others, including Dimitri.  In fact, Dimitri
and I sat together with Eric Hughes and a couple of other list members
during lunch one day.

I am afraid that, for those of you who do not know him and are expecting
some ranting tyrant, you're going to be rather disappointed.  He was
soft-spoken, almost difficult to hear, sometimes, it seemed, even rather
shy.  He made numerous insightful comments on any number of topics, was a
pleasant conversationalist, and, in fact, acted like a gentleman in ever
instance when I saw or spoke with him.  To meet him solely in person,
you'd be impressed with his obviously diverse education and background,
and rather quiet disposition.  As anti-climactic as it may be, he was 
actually a nice, unassuming fellow with a sense of humor and a
pleasant demeanor.  Hell, he even had decent table manners.

Which is why, for the life of me, I can't understand how all these
postings from him are coming from the same human being.  The man I met
seemed incapable of such rage, bitterness and utter detestation.  It's as
much Jekyll/Hyde as I've ever seen between on and off line personas.

Oh, well - maybe there really _are_ that many people for whom life on the
screen is lived through some distortion or parallel of who and what they
are.  I like the realspace Dimitri much better, and I certainly don't want
to dissuade anyone from contributing, nor would I seek to scuttle a free
trip to S.F for Dimitri, but some mysteries are best left undiscovered. If
it's high-stakes entertainment you seek, you may find that you prefer the
character to the actor.

------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
|And if Dole wins and dies in office, they|        Mark Aldrich         |
|could just pickle him and no one would   |   GRCI INFOSEC Engineering  |
|notice.  It wouldn't be the first time we|     maldrich@grci.com       |
|had a dill-dole running the country.     | MAldrich@dockmaster.ncsc.mil|
|               -- Alan Olsen             |                             |
|_______________________________________________________________________|
|The author is PGP Empowered.  Public key at:  finger maldrich@grci.com |
|    The opinions expressed herein are strictly those of the author     |
|         and my employer gets no credit for them whatsoever.           |
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                          SANDY SANDFORT
 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

C'punks,

On Thu, 10 Oct 1996, Mark O. Aldrich wrote:

> I am afraid that, for those of you who do not know him and are expecting
> some ranting tyrant, you're going to be rather disappointed.  He was
> soft-spoken, almost difficult to hear, sometimes, it seemed, even rather
> shy.  He made numerous insightful comments on any number of topics, was a
> pleasant conversationalist, and, in fact, acted like a gentleman in ever
> instance when I saw or spoke with him.  To meet him solely in person,
> you'd be impressed with his obviously diverse education and background,
> and rather quiet disposition.  As anti-climactic as it may be, he was 
> actually a nice, unassuming fellow with a sense of humor and a
> pleasant demeanor.  Hell, he even had decent table manners.

Given all that Mark has said, I now MORE THAN EVER want to meet
Dimitri in person.  But let's hear from him.

BTW, another private pledge for $20 has come in.  Kaching!


 S a n d y

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

On Thu, 10 Oct 1996 07:01:45 -0700 (PDT), you wrote:

:~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
:                          SANDY SANDFORT
: . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
:
:Bay Area Cypherpunks,
:
:I am hereby pledging US$100 towards a fund to fly Dimitri to the
:SF Bay area for a Cypherpunk meeting. 

Set a date for this event, I fly around the country, if I can arrange
my schedual around the time of this meeting, I will gladly match the
100 USD.

:We should throw in a hotel room
Not so fast, let's see, if his topic is good, then I will contribute
another $50 twords a stay at the Embasy Suites in Walnut Creek ( Very
Nice Dimitri, they serve breakfast in bed upon request)

 On the flip side, if he doesn't live up to the expectations of being
a world class cryptographer, well he can flop out in one of the BART
stations downtown.

:and local transportation as well.  
Let's tie this to how well he does too, if he does well, we get him a
car, if he flunks out, well, he's covered there too, He can panhandle
for change and ride BART.

Regards,
Michael Peponis
PGP Encyrpted mail prefered for business corespondence
finger mianigand@outlook.net for public key

Sandy Sandfort <sandfort@crl.com> writes:
> his choice of topic, of course.

"Timmy May and his sexual perversions". Illustrated with slides.

---

Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM
Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                          SANDY SANDFORT
 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

C'punks,

On Thu, 10 Oct 1996, Dimitri wrote:

> Sandy Sandfort <sandfort@crl.com> writes:
> > his choice of topic, of course.
> 
> "Timmy May and his sexual perversions". Illustrated with slides.

As I said, Dimitri's choice of topic.  I take it that his reply
means he is accepting my offer.  Please contact me via private
e-mail, Dimitri, so we may work out the details of your trip and
presentation.  Will you need a slide projector, or will you bring
your own?


 S a n d y

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

On Thu, 10 Oct 1996, Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM wrote:

> Sandy Sandfort <sandfort@crl.com> writes:
> > his choice of topic, of course.
> 
> "Timmy May and his sexual perversions". Illustrated with slides.
> 
Somehow I don't think that would be appropriate for a Cypherpunks 
meeting.  (Not to mention the fact that it has no crypto-relevance :).  
How about you and Tim sit down and *NICELY* talk about your differences?  
It would make a nice change from your one-sided rants to the list, and 
would probably be a lot more civil, too.



Zach Babayco 

zachb@netcom.com   <-------Finger for PGP Public Key
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Park/4127
-----
If you need to know how to set up a mail filter or defend against 
emailbombs, send me a message with the words "get helpfile" (without the 
" marks) in the SUBJECT: header.  I have several useful FAQ's and documents 
available.

Z.B. wrote:
> On Thu, 10 Oct 1996, Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM wrote:
> > Sandy Sandfort <sandfort@crl.com> writes:
> > > his choice of topic, of course.
> > "Timmy May and his sexual perversions". Illustrated with slides.

> Somehow I don't think that would be appropriate for a Cypherpunks
> meeting.  (Not to mention the fact that it has no crypto-relevance :).
> How about you and Tim sit down and *NICELY* talk about your
> differences? It would make a nice change from your one-sided rants to
> the list, and would probably be a lot more civil, too.

What cypherpunks meeting?  Is this a joke?  People are lining up to pay 
for this.  Better than Romans -vs- Christians, etc.

"Z.B." <zachb@netcom.com> writes:

> On Thu, 10 Oct 1996, Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM wrote:
> 
> > Sandy Sandfort <sandfort@crl.com> writes:
> > > his choice of topic, of course.
> > 
> > "Timmy May and his sexual perversions". Illustrated with slides.
> > 
> Somehow I don't think that would be appropriate for a Cypherpunks 
> meeting.  (Not to mention the fact that it has no crypto-relevance :).  

No deal, then. I suggest that for your next meeting you book Timmy May to
perform live sex acts on stage with his two cats, as Ray and Zach do the
Macarena circle-jerk.

> How about you and Tim sit down and *NICELY* talk about your differences?  

How about Timmy posting an apology and a retraction to this list?

> It would make a nice change from your one-sided rants to the list, and 
> would probably be a lot more civil, too.

Zach, I don't think you've been on this list long enough to realize that
Timmy started flaming me for no apparent reason, and lying about me, and
attributing to me various shit I never said. I'm just pointing out that
he's a liar and a generally despicable net.scum.

---

Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM
Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                          SANDY SANDFORT
 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

C'punks,

On Fri, 11 Oct 1996, Dimitri wrote:

> "Z.B." <zachb@netcom.com> writes:
> 
> > Somehow I don't think that would be appropriate for a Cypherpunks 
> > meeting.  (Not to mention the fact that it has no crypto-relevance :).  
> 
> No deal, then...

MY invitation to Dimitri has NO topic limitations, Zach's 
suggestion to the contrary notwithstanding.  Do I take it, 
Dimitri, we have a tentative agreement for you to come and speak
at an SF area Cypherpunks meeting at our expense?  You are so
vocal usually.  Why will you not respond to my invitation?  I
consider this rude even by Russian standards.


 S a n d y

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

On Fri, 11 Oct 1996, Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM wrote:

> > It would make a nice change from your one-sided rants to the list, and 
> > would probably be a lot more civil, too.
> 
> Zach, I don't think you've been on this list long enough to realize that
> Timmy started flaming me for no apparent reason, and lying about me, and
> attributing to me various shit I never said. I'm just pointing out that
> he's a liar and a generally despicable net.scum.

    I've been on this list for around a year, and nothing that I've 
seen (on here) has given you enough reason for the type of senseless 
garbage flowing freely from your fingers.  While Tim (along with the 
rest of us) is no angel your problems with him should be sent directly
to him and not the Cypherpunks list where it appears to the rest of us 
that you are having a one-sided, drug-induced ranting fest.

    I simply can't comprehend why someone with your alleged credentials 
and knowledge would want to make their peers see them as a foul-mouthed, 
ignorant teenager.  So, explain yourself.

                       ________________________________
                      [ Bruce M. - Feist Systems, Inc. ]
                       ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
      "We don't want to get our butts kicked by a bunch of long-haired 
        26-year-olds with earrings." -- General John Sheehan on their 
                       reasons for InfoWar involvement

>>>>> "Dimitri" == Dimitri Vulis KOTM <dlv@bwalk.dm.com> writes:

Dimitri> Zach, I don't think you've been on this list long enough to
Dimitri> realize that Timmy started flaming me for no apparent reason,
Dimitri> and lying about me, and attributing to me various shit I
Dimitri> never said. I'm just pointing out that he's a liar and a
Dimitri> generally despicable net.scum.

>From the cypherpunks memory division.

Tim's message:

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To: cypherpunks@toad.com
From: tcmay@got.net (Timothy C. May)
Subject: Re: Hayek (was: Cato Institute conference on Net-regulation)
Sender: owner-cypherpunks@toad.com
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Xref: deanna.miranova.com cypherpunks:3651

At 4:26 AM 8/28/96, Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM wrote:
>Senile tcmay@got.net (Timothy C. May) rants:
>> Indeed, Hayek has had a _lot_ to do with the Cypherpunks! From "The Road to
>> Serfdom" to "Law, Legislation, and Liberty," his works have exerted a
>> profound influence on me, and on many others.
>
>But he's fucking unreadable.  I plan to teach economic this semester and
>make every student read Hazlitt (economics in 1 lesson). I can't force them
>to read hayek (or Rothbard) because they're fucking unreadable. Shit.

Well, to one who inserts "(spit)" after nearly every name he cites, and
critiques Hayek as "fucking unreadable. Shit.," I suppose Hayek must indeed
seem unreadable. Shit.

After all, Hayek rarely writes things like: "The senile Von Mises (spit)
and his Sovok Cabal plotters...."

As to "forcing" your students to read Hayek, just who is in charge? If
you're the instructor, they can choose to read what you tell them to read,
or be unprepared on the exams you give and possibly flunk the class. What
part of "Required Reading" do you or your students not understand?

--Tim (spit) May

We got computers, we're tapping phone lines, I know that that ain't allowed.
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
tcmay@got.net  408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Licensed Ontologist         | black markets, collapse of governments.
"National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."

And Vulis' response:

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To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Hayek (was: Cato Institute conference on Net-regulation)
From: dlv@bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM)
Comments: Dole/Kemp '96!
Message-Id: <8a0DTD20w165w@bwalk.dm.com>
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 96 19:19:30 EDT
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Senile tcmay@got.net (Timothy C. May) (fart) rants:

> At 4:26 AM 8/28/96, Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM wrote:
> >Senile tcmay@got.net (Timothy C. May) rants:
> >> Indeed, Hayek has had a _lot_ to do with the Cypherpunks! From "The Road t
> >> Serfdom" to "Law, Legislation, and Liberty," his works have exerted a
> >> profound influence on me, and on many others.
> >
> >But he's fucking unreadable.  I plan to teach economic this semester and
> >make every student read Hazlitt (economics in 1 lesson). I can't force them
> >to read hayek (or Rothbard) because they're fucking unreadable. Shit.
>
> Well, to one who inserts "(spit)" after nearly every name he cites, and
> critiques Hayek as "fucking unreadable. Shit.," I suppose Hayek must indeed
> seem unreadable. Shit.

Are you jealous, Tim )fart)? You're just a senile old fart, not worth my
spittle. I make you feel better I'll put (fart) after you stupid name. Shit.

> After all, Hayek rarely writes things like: "The senile Von Mises (spit)
> and his Sovok Cabal plotters...."

Senile Tim May (fart) exposes himself as a liar by attributing to me shit
I've never said (Pidor Vorobiev's forgeries). Please stop polluting this
mailing list with your lies and personal attacks.

> As to "forcing" your students to read Hayek, just who is in charge? If
> you're the instructor, they can choose to read what you tell them to read,
> or be unprepared on the exams you give and possibly flunk the class. What
> part of "Required Reading" do you or your students not understand?

It's been many years since Tim May (spit) has been to college, hasn't it?
I don't blackmail my students into doing the work they don't want to do
by blackmailing them with grades. When I taught comp.sec., I said from the
start that everyone gets an A, and I trust tgen to be motivated enough to
read everything I _suggest_ they read. And they all did a great job and
earn3d their A's.

Senile Tim May (fart) is a fucking statist asshole.

Fuck you and fuck your criminal Arm*nian grandparents.

---

Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM
Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps



-- 
steve@miranova.com baur
Unsolicited commercial e-mail will be billed at $250/message.
What are the last two letters of "doesn't" and "can't"?
Coincidence?  I think not.

Well, I don't think he much cares what enyone thinks. If he did,
he wouldn't be spewing childish obscene SPAM about Tim May 
non-stop. I've never seen someone engage in such a singlehanded
& through devastation of their own credibility as Dimitri has
to his own.

To say the least the SPAM coming to the list from him is
totaly innapropriate. Hell, the periodic junk-spam-mail I get
to 'make money fast' is less obnoxious.

In any case I wish he'd fall off a pier, he certainly isn't much
of a cypherpunk in my rather liberal interpretation of what it takes.
I applaude any efforts to get him to shut up, and/or go away. 
Hopefully something productive will happen, that would be a real
win/win, like he get's hired by the FBI, get's off this list,
and he causes counter-productivity there, as well as is gone from
here.


Tim

On Thu, 10 Oct 1996, Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM wrote:

> Sandy Sandfort <sandfort@crl.com> writes:
> > his choice of topic, of course.
> 
> "Timmy May and his sexual perversions". Illustrated with slides.
> 

Given the choice of discussing crypto, or his own bizzare fantasies, the 
Good Dr. opts for the latter ...

Somehow, I'm not at all surprised.

Can we book his flight on ValuJett?

-r.w.