PIS_son

10-17-96, BuWi:

   "Apple, IBM, JavaSoft, Motorola, Netscape, Nortel, Novell,
   RSA, and Silicon Graphics Announce PICA Crypto-Alliance"

      The PICA specification will also be designed to make the
      task of developing differing domestic and exportable
      security requirements much easier. [GAK alliance 2.]


   PrNe: "World Wide Web Casinos, Inc. Brings Gambling to the
   Internet at www.netpirates.com"

      "Placing bets cannot be illegal because, despite their
      origination, bets will technically be placed on the 
      computers at our off-shore spy-based casino site."


   BuWi: "Cylink Partners with U.S.P.S to Build National 
   Citizen Tracking System to Include Postmarking and 
   Authentication for Legal/Medical Records, Tax Filings"


   PhIn: "Unsuspecting Internet Users' 'Cookie' Files Concern
   Privacy Advocates"

      But look at cookie users another way: You're the hydrant 
      and they're the dogs, marking you for future reference.

   -----

   http://jya.com/pisson.txt  (24 kb for 4)

   ftp://jya.com/pub/incoming/pisson.txt

   PIS_son

John Young <jya@pipeline.com> writes:
>    PhIn: "Unsuspecting Internet Users' 'Cookie' Files Concern
>    Privacy Advocates"
> 
>       But look at cookie users another way: You're the hydrant 
>       and they're the dogs, marking you for future reference.

For the Mac people, CookieCleaner (available at your local info-mac
mirror) will trim unwanted entires from your cookie file (source
included).

Jer

ObCrypto: Has anyone at CMU/Pitt/anywhere that uses AMS gotten
MailCrypt to work with BatMail?

"standing on top of the world/ never knew how you never could/ never knew
 why you never could live/ innocent life that everyone did" -Wormhole

John Young wrote:
> 
>    10-17-96, BuWi:
> 
>    "Apple, IBM, JavaSoft, Motorola, Netscape, Nortel, Novell,
>    RSA, and Silicon Graphics Announce PICA Crypto-Alliance"
> 
>       The PICA specification will also be designed to make the
>       task of developing differing domestic and exportable
>       security requirements much easier. [GAK alliance 2.]

  John, I think you are misreading the intent here.  By making
it easier to develop separate domestic and exportable
versions of a product, we foil the government's attempt to
force weak domestic encryption because it is too much work to
maintain two different versions.

	--Jeff

-- 
Jeff Weinstein - Electronic Munitions Specialist
Netscape Communication Corporation
jsw@netscape.com - http://home.netscape.com/people/jsw
Any opinions expressed above are mine.

The Deviant wrote:
 
> On Tue, 22 Oct 1996, Jeff Weinstein wrote:
> >   John, I think you are misreading the intent here.  By making
> > it easier to develop separate domestic and exportable
> > versions of a product, we foil the government's attempt to
> > force weak domestic encryption because it is too much work to
> > maintain two different versions.

> Intents are arguments used by idealists.  Netscapes screwing us over.

Please explain your position. The engineering community at Netscape is
doing what it can, within the law, to provide strong crypto to our
customers.

PK
--
Philip L. Karlton			karlton@netscape.com
Principal Curmudgeon			http://www.netscape.com/people/karlton
Netscape Communications Corporation

    Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler.
	-- Albert Einstein

On Thu, 24 Oct 1996, Philip L. Karlton wrote:

> The Deviant wrote:
>  
> > On Tue, 22 Oct 1996, Jeff Weinstein wrote:
> > >   John, I think you are misreading the intent here.  By making
> > > it easier to develop separate domestic and exportable
> > > versions of a product, we foil the government's attempt to
> > > force weak domestic encryption because it is too much work to
> > > maintain two different versions.
> 
> > Intents are arguments used by idealists.  Netscapes screwing us over.
> 
> Please explain your position. The engineering community at Netscape is
> doing what it can, within the law, to provide strong crypto to our
> customers.
> 
> PK
> --
> Philip L. Karlton			karlton@netscape.com
> Principal Curmudgeon			http://www.netscape.com/people/karlton
> Netscape Communications Corporation
> 
>     Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler.
> 	-- Albert Einstein
> 

As I later said to Jeff, I was tired, i misread something.  I apologize.
thats about you 'screwing us over' (the IBM crapload 'bout GAK)

on the otherhand, if you read carefully, "Civil Disobediance" is within
the law.

 --Deviant
"Whatever you do will be insignificant, but it is very important that
you do it."  --Mahatma Gandhi

On Tue, 22 Oct 1996, Jeff Weinstein wrote:

> John Young wrote:
> > 
> >    10-17-96, BuWi:
> > 
> >    "Apple, IBM, JavaSoft, Motorola, Netscape, Nortel, Novell,
> >    RSA, and Silicon Graphics Announce PICA Crypto-Alliance"
> > 
> >       The PICA specification will also be designed to make the
> >       task of developing differing domestic and exportable
> >       security requirements much easier. [GAK alliance 2.]
> 
>   John, I think you are misreading the intent here.  By making
> it easier to develop separate domestic and exportable
> versions of a product, we foil the government's attempt to
> force weak domestic encryption because it is too much work to
> maintain two different versions.
> 
> 	--Jeff
> 
> -- 
> Jeff Weinstein - Electronic Munitions Specialist
> Netscape Communication Corporation
> jsw@netscape.com - http://home.netscape.com/people/jsw
> Any opinions expressed above are mine.
> 

Intents are arguments used by idealists.  Netscapes screwing us over.

 --Deviant
Swap read error.  You lose your mind.

At 4:11 PM -0700 10/22/96, Jeff Weinstein wrote:
>John Young wrote:
>>
>>    10-17-96, BuWi:
>>
>>    "Apple, IBM, JavaSoft, Motorola, Netscape, Nortel, Novell,
>>    RSA, and Silicon Graphics Announce PICA Crypto-Alliance"
>>
>>       The PICA specification will also be designed to make the
>>       task of developing differing domestic and exportable
>>       security requirements much easier. [GAK alliance 2.]
>
>  John, I think you are misreading the intent here.  By making
>it easier to develop separate domestic and exportable
>versions of a product, we foil the government's attempt to
>force weak domestic encryption because it is too much work to
>maintain two different versions.

Thwarting the True Intent of GAK by ensuring that domestic crypto is
completely unhampered, unhindered, unlimited, and unGAKked is terribly
important. A year or so ago, when Netscape folks issued assurances that the
"relative convenience" of having one "world version" would not be the
determining factor, and that Netscape would have two versions (times the
number of platforms they support), was an incredibly positive development.

(And Bill Gates, of the Evil Microsoft, had already isssued scathing
denunciations of key escrow and mandatory crypto, so MS was already
effectively in our camp.)

So, if PICA helps this (along with the Elites Alliance, a rival type), more
power to them. I wouldn't be surprised if the Feds try to exert pressure on
them to change this purpose that Jeff W. describes. Government will realize
that industry consortia are a way to "build consensus" on getting GAK built
in to even domestic products. (The renaming of Clipper/Tessera/etc. to key
escrow and then to "key recovery" is essential to this strategy....got to
convince U.S. software companies that Mr. Policeman is Our Friend...not an
easy sell.)

But I wonder if the PICA Alliance will be allowed to pursue this "dual
strength strategy." Mightn't it be a violation of the ITARs merely to
_conspire_ to keep domestic crypto unhindered and strong?

(:-} for the :-}-impaired.)

Though this is preaching to the choir, it's imperative that Netscape,
Microsoft, and the Other Minor Players remain committed to _never_
compromising the security of _domestic_ products....Europe and Asia will
have to take of themselves, as the true battle always has and always will
be about the U.S. government's desire to surveil us and tap our
communications at will.

(Anyone who doubts this should reread the recent comments of Janet Reno,
Louis Freeh, Jamie Gorelick, and all the others talking about the need to
read the communications of criminals and suspected criminals. The real goal
is to head off crypto anarchy, as the summary by Black Unicorn made clear
just a day or two ago.)

--Tim May

"The government announcement is disastrous," said Jim Bidzos,.."We warned IBM
that the National Security Agency would try to twist their technology."
[NYT, 1996-10-02]
We got computers, we're tapping phone lines, I know that that ain't allowed.
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
tcmay@got.net  408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Higher Power: 2^1,257,787-1 | black markets, collapse of governments.
"National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."