Re: The Utility of Privacy

At 8:03 PM 11/17/1996, Black Unicorn wrote:
>On Sun, 17 Nov 1996, Huge Cajones Remailer wrote:
>> Are there similar sources of information calculating privacy risk?  I
>> don't think so.
>
>Ah, so let's ignore the risks, on the grounds that we have no idea what
>they might be, or their magnitude.  That's clever.  I like that.

The risks are not being ignored.  What is there to fear?

>> Informally, I don't know anybody who has suffered due to a loss of
>> privacy.
>
>Your circle of associations must be limited.

Examples?

>> My question remains unanswered, probably because privacy isn't worth
>> the effort.
>
>And no one can answer that question but you.  Privacy is a personal
>decision.  I'm sure there are many out there who will suffer no harm even
>if their SSN is published in the Wall Street Journal.

The experience of others has value.

>Why, however, fail to take out insurance when the cost is so low?  Really
>it doesn't take much in the way of effort or money to assure one's
>privacy.  (Hint: It's getting cheaper every day in some ways).
>
>Answer: Nearly all of the cost of privacy is concentrated in set up cost.
>Maintaince costs are minimal once set up has been made.  Yet getting over
>that first hurdle is the biggest leap.

Good.  We are getting somewhere.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                          SANDY SANDFORT
 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

C'punks,

On Sun, 17 Nov 1996, Huge Cajones Remailer wrote:

> >> Informally, I don't know anybody who has suffered due to a loss of
> >> privacy.
> >
> >Your circle of associations must be limited.
> 
> Examples [of people who have suffered due to loss of privacy]?

Phil Zimmermann often tells the story of a woman whose marriage
was destroyed by the revelation of a long-past indiscretion. 
After her husband divorced her, she committed suicide.

Any number of celebrities have been stalked, attacked and even
killed by obsessed fans who found them through public records.

Every year, children and business executives are kidnapped for
ransom.  The proximate cause of these kidnappings is a breach in
privacy about the whereabouts and schedules of the victim.  

Hitler's gun registration in Germany allowed the Jews to be
disarmed.  I'm sure you are aware of the ultimate consequences
of that little invasion of privacy.

The US Post Office co-operated in the identification and 
imprisonment of people of Japanese ancestry during the second
world war.

The problem with having a whole lot of private information about
you floating around in public is not what damage it can do to you
now, but rather the problems it potentially could cause in the
future.  Just about everyone on this list has been to university.
Not long ago, a college education was essentially a death warrant 
in Cambodia.  Prior to that, a degree was considered a good thing
there.  People saw no reason to hid the fact that they had been
in school.  Trouble is, things changed.

And the trouble today is that things can change now, too.  Think
about the things that you have publicly done or advocated.  Even
if they are as legal as church on Sunday NOW, how comfortable 
will you be about them if there is extreme right or left takeover
in the future?  Start to get the picture?


 S a n d y

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>                           SANDY SANDFORT
>  . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
> 
> C'punks,
> 
> On Sun, 17 Nov 1996, Huge Cajones Remailer wrote:
> 
> > >> Informally, I don't know anybody who has suffered due to a loss of
> > >> privacy.
> > >
> > >Your circle of associations must be limited.
> > 
> > Examples [of people who have suffered due to loss of privacy]?
> 
[Sandy's list of examples elided for space]
>  S a n d y
> 
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

And here's a new one from today's (11/18/96) New York Times:

For complete story, see:
http://www.nytimes.com/yr/mo/day/news/national/child-pornographer.html


On Prison Computer, Files to Make Parents Shiver By Nina Bernstein

For two years, the Federal Bureau of Investigation has been looking into
a computer programming and telemarketing business that is run by inmates
at a Minnesota prison after agents seized child pornography files.

  -30-

The story explains how investiagtors found not just child pornography, but 
a list of names, ages, personal details ("latchkey kids," "speech 
difficulties," etc.) of children "most[ly] girls between 3 and 12" 
alphabetized by town and coded by map coordintates.


rgds-- TA  (tallard@frb.gov)
I don't speak for the Federal Reserve Board, it doesn't speak for me.
pgp fingerprint: 10 49 F5 24 F1 D9 A7 D6  DE 14 25 C8 C0 E2 57 9D

On Mon, 18 Nov 1996, Sandy Sandfort wrote:

> The problem with having a whole lot of private information about
> you floating around in public is not what damage it can do to you
> now, but rather the problems it potentially could cause in the
> future.  Just about everyone on this list has been to university.
> Not long ago, a college education was essentially a death warrant 
> in Cambodia.  Prior to that, a degree was considered a good thing
> there.  People saw no reason to hid the fact that they had been
> in school.  Trouble is, things changed.

Oh, come on.  That could never happen here.

--
Forward complaints to : European Association of Envelope Manufactures
Finger for Public Key   Gutenbergstrasse 21;Postfach;CH-3001;Bern
Vote Monarchist         Switzerland

Black Unicorn wrote:
> 
> On Mon, 18 Nov 1996, Sandy Sandfort wrote:
> 
> > The problem with having a whole lot of private information about
> > you floating around in public is not what damage it can do to you
> > now, but rather the problems it potentially could cause in the
> > future.  Just about everyone on this list has been to university.
> > Not long ago, a college education was essentially a death warrant
> > in Cambodia....
> 
> Oh, come on.  That could never happen here.

[Where is "here" for every list member?]

Not bloody likely, no, but Mr. Kasczynski or the Symbionese Liberation
Army could take a disliking to you for similar reasons. And you never 
know where you might travel. I've got a journalist friend who's paranoid 
about appearing at any political event because she's afraid she won't be 
allowed back into China or Southeast Asia if it comes out that she gives 
a damn about human rights.

A seasonal haiku, original author unknown:

Open your present
No, you open your present
Kasczynski Christmas

-rich

Sandy Sandfort <sandfort@crl.com> writes:
> Any number of celebrities have been stalked, attacked and even
> killed by obsessed fans who found them through public records.

Sandy should learn some English.

> The US Post Office co-operated in the identification and
> imprisonment of people of Japanese ancestry during the second
> world war.

Sandy doesn't see the difference between the Post Office and the Census Bureau.
Sandy is a typical cypherpunk, one of John Gilmore's brainless stormtroopers.

---

Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM
Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps