Re: FW: Dr. Vulis (ad nauseum)

At 09:27 PM 11/6/96 -0600, you wrote:
:
[snip]

:In short they have now opened themselves up for defamation and liable
suites by imposing an editorial policy on the contents of this list (1).

This is not a they; this is an individual with (and within) his own rights.

Nonsense, no policy has been stated. The owner determined that the good Dr.
had been disruptive and had become a detriment to the owner's list (and
possibly sanity).
:
:This opens up the potential, for example, for Tim May to sue the operator of
:the Cypherpunks mailing list now for posts from users (even anonymous ones)
:which defame or otherwise liable his character, reputation, or ability to
:pursue income in his chosen field.

PLEASE, let's not drag poor Tim into this. Hasn't he suffered enough?!
This does not follow even from the tortured logic above.

:In short the operators of the list
:becomes publishers and distributors of the material. It is the legal
:difference between a bookstore and a book publisher.
 
:Censorship is censorship, irrespective of the source of the limitation.
:Free expression is impossible in an environment of censorship. The right to
:speak not only implies a right to not speak, it also implies the right to
:emit complete mumbo jumbo. The actual content of the speech is irrelevant.

"Implies the right"??  Rights either exist or do not exist (endowed by their
Creator); they are not be implied.

The content of speech is certainly not irrelevant. Disruptive speech and
behavior have never been protected.
:
:The Constitution guarantees freedom of speech and press. [snip] Only that
they :would not have limitations on their actions imposed by the federal
government.
:
:				ARTICLE I. 
: 
:	Congress shall make no law [snip]

It says CONGRESS! We're not discussing an action by the federal govt. here.
I may choose to ask those visiting my house to refrain from discussing mumbo
jumbo; if the individuals persist, I can ask, nay demand, that they leave.  
:
:And just to make shure it is clear, the right to put something on the paper
:(ie speech) is distinctly different from being the one doing the actual
:printing.

What paper? What does this mean? 
:
:I have argued in the past that this list is a defacto public list because of
:the way it is advertised and to the extent it is advertised. All the protests
:by the operator to the contrary will not convince a court.

Advertised? It has been a matter of regret that I _stumbled_ into this
unruly tangle of wits.

Simply because one has argued that "the list is ... a defacto public list,"
don't make it so any more than my arguing that a newspaper available to the
public can have no control over its own editorial policy.

Let's get beyond this.

 
Cordially,

Alec                   

PGP Fingerprint:

pub  1024/41207EE5 1996/04/08 Alec McCrackin <camcc@abraxis.com>
Key fingerprint =  09 13 E1 CB B3 0C 88 D9  D7 D4 10 F0 06 7D DF 31

At 5:12 PM -0500 11/7/96, Alec wrote:

>:This opens up the potential, for example, for Tim May to sue the operator of
>:the Cypherpunks mailing list now for posts from users (even anonymous ones)
>:which defame or otherwise liable his character, reputation, or ability to
>:pursue income in his chosen field.
>
>PLEASE, let's not drag poor Tim into this. Hasn't he suffered enough?!
>This does not follow even from the tortured logic above.

And, indeed, it is not likely to be who suffers in the job market as a
result of Dr. Vulis' rants and raves and generally insane postings; my
situation is secure, but I understand that Vulis has joined L. Dettweiler
on the "List of Unemployables" passed around Silicon Valley.

I strongly doubt many computer companies in the Silicon Valley will be
willing to hire him or his consulting service as his antics have received
publicity.

He may have his "NetScum" list and Web page, but it's his name on the list
of folks not to hire.

--Tim May

"The government announcement is disastrous," said Jim Bidzos,.."We warned IBM
that the National Security Agency would try to twist their technology."
[NYT, 1996-10-02]
We got computers, we're tapping phone lines, I know that that ain't allowed.
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
tcmay@got.net  408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Higher Power: 2^1,257,787-1 | black markets, collapse of governments.
"National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."

[Cc:'d to John "deep pockets" Gilmore, who approves of and assumes liability
for Timmy's posts on John's private mailing list. ]

"Timothy C. May" <tcmay@got.net> writes:

> And, indeed, it is not likely to be who suffers in the job market as a
> result of Dr. Vulis' rants and raves and generally insane postings; my
> situation is secure, but I understand that Vulis has joined L. Dettweiler
> on the "List of Unemployables" passed around Silicon Valley.
>
> I strongly doubt many computer companies in the Silicon Valley will be
> willing to hire him or his consulting service as his antics have received
> publicity.
>
> He may have his "NetScum" list and Web page, but it's his name on the list
> of folks not to hire.

Too bad for the Silicon Valley. :-) But I couldn't be hired by Cygnus
anyway because I'm straight.

---

Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM
Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps