Return address forgery [was Judge Kozinski...]

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To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Date: Fri Nov 08 20:20:02 1996
The Bovine remailer wrote:

> On Wed, 6 Nov 1996, Bill Frantz wrote:
> 
> > At  4:39 AM 11/6/96 -0500, Jim Ray wrote:
> > >Judge Kozinski wrote:
> > >> ... Perhaps the answer
> > >> is that the post office should not accept mail unless there
> > >> is a clear indication of who the sender is 

[...]

> > In the case of postal mail, return address forgery is so easy

[...]

> Yes the failure to forsee this did stand out a little in the discourse
>  :).

Well, in the judge's defense, note that he used the word "perhaps" above. I 
like this judge, which (obviously) isn't something I can say about too many 
judges...I think he was just trying to sharpen our thoughts and arguments, 
and that he DOES agree with us on many, many things. His fears about the 
misuse of anonymity in a police state, for example, come from his personal 
experience in a former socialist paradise. I think (hope) that being exposed 
to "cypherpunk issues" by as many good thinkers as he was, in a relaxed, 
non-courtroom setting, has broadened his understanding of the many issues 
involved and will help "our" side immensely if these same issues ever do 
come before him.

I have decided, however, to cease my very enjoyable conversation with him 
about these issues, from now until after Judge Patel's Bernstein case has 
been decided and appealed, because of this very possibility. I am already 
concerned that an ambitious U.S. Attorney, using Alta Vista, could attempt 
to argue that "cypherpunk terrorists have been secretly trying to subtly 
influence Kozinski's thinking, and that therefore he should be removed from 
the case in favor of some judge who has no clue whatsoever about the 'Net, 
encryption, anonymous remailers, etc." [I am sure the argument wouldn't be 
put quite that way <g> but that's what the U.S. Attorney would mean.] There 
is now a judge with some idea of these issues who will IMNSHO probably be 
fair to "our" side. It is a rare opportunity, and I don't want to "blow it."
JMR


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At 8:20 AM -0500 11/8/96, Jim Ray wrote:

>been decided and appealed, because of this very possibility. I am already
>concerned that an ambitious U.S. Attorney, using Alta Vista, could attempt
>to argue that "cypherpunk terrorists have been secretly trying to subtly
>influence Kozinski's thinking, and that therefore he should be removed from
>the case in favor of some judge who has no clue whatsoever about the 'Net,
>encryption, anonymous remailers, etc." [I am sure the argument wouldn't be
>put quite that way <g> but that's what the U.S. Attorney would mean.] There
>is now a judge with some idea of these issues who will IMNSHO probably be
>fair to "our" side. It is a rare opportunity, and I don't want to "blow it."

A valid fear, given the times we live in.

If jurors can be dismissed for knowing "too much" about the O,J.
case--knowing how to _read_ ensures this--then we are probably
fast-approaching the point where judges are recused (or whatever the word
is) from hearing cases where they've had any education whatsover on.

(An exaggeration, of course.)

In any case, I don't think trying to influence the thinking of one of the
thousands of local judges is an efficient use of our time. Jim may enjoy
it, which is fine, but this is why I never took even a millisecond to write
a special essay for Judge Kozinski.

I place more faith in seeing the fundamental ground truth changed, via
technology.

--Tim May

"The government announcement is disastrous," said Jim Bidzos,.."We warned IBM
that the National Security Agency would try to twist their technology."
[NYT, 1996-10-02]
We got computers, we're tapping phone lines, I know that that ain't allowed.
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
tcmay@got.net  408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Higher Power: 2^1,257,787-1 | black markets, collapse of governments.
"National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."

Timothy C. May wrote:
> At 8:20 AM -0500 11/8/96, Jim Ray wrote:
> >been decided and appealed, because of this very possibility. I am already
> >concerned that an ambitious U.S. Attorney, using Alta Vista, could attempt
> >to argue that "cypherpunk terrorists have been secretly trying to subtly
> >influence Kozinski's thinking, and that therefore he should be removed from
> >the case in favor of some judge who has no clue whatsoever about the 'Net,
> >encryption, anonymous remailers, etc." [I am sure the argument wouldn't be
> >put quite that way <g> but that's what the U.S. Attorney would mean.] There
> >is now a judge with some idea of these issues who will IMNSHO probably be
> >fair to "our" side. It is a rare opportunity, and I don't want to "blow it."

> If jurors can be dismissed for knowing "too much" about the O,J.
> case--knowing how to _read_ ensures this--then we are probably
> fast-approaching the point where judges are recused (or whatever the word
> is) from hearing cases where they've had any education whatsover on.

Maybe people should worry about how judges are *not* excused in certain cases.

The early word on the street was that the Japanese mob did Ron & Nicole, and *both*
judges look suspiciously like people who might want to *contain* certain information.