Re: Dorthy Denning is a boot-licking fasicist!!!

"William H. Geiger III" <whgiii@amaranth.com> writes:

>I don't know if anyone watched the House Subcomitty on Computers &
>Technology today on C-Span.

No, we watched 'Dorothy does Georgetown" on C-Spam.

>Phil Zimmerman, Dorthy Denning, William Reinsch & others were disscussing
>computer security.
>
>Dorthy Denning gave the most pro-government speech I have ever heard. Is
>this clueless bitch on the government payroll?!!

Yes.

>William Reinsch is a lying bastard. Fucking politions!! Fucking
>goverment!! They all deserve a long rope!!

Start with Socks the queer cat.

>Phil Zimmerman was quite good at attacking the government policies.
>
><sigh> We are truly a country of fools to have put these jackbooted
>facisit bastards back into office.

"Dorothy Denning" is a man in drag. "She" has a bigger dick that
"her" boyfriend John Gilmore, the cocksucker faggot from EFF.

>-----------------------------------------------------------
>"William H. Geiger III" <whgiii@amaranth.com>
>-----------------------------------------------------------

Just say GAK to chicks with dicks!

diGriz

On Wed, 27 Nov 1996, Huge Cajones Remailer wrote:

> "William H. Geiger III" <whgiii@amaranth.com> writes:
> 
> >I don't know if anyone watched the House Subcomitty on Computers &
> >Technology today on C-Span.
> 
> No, we watched 'Dorothy does Georgetown" on C-Spam.
> 
> >Phil Zimmerman, Dorthy Denning, William Reinsch & others were disscussing
> >computer security.
> >
> >Dorthy Denning gave the most pro-government speech I have ever heard. Is
> >this clueless bitch on the government payroll?!!
> 
> Yes.
> 
> >William Reinsch is a lying bastard. Fucking politions!! Fucking
> >goverment!! They all deserve a long rope!!
> 
> Start with Socks the queer cat.
> 
> >Phil Zimmerman was quite good at attacking the government policies.
> >
> ><sigh> We are truly a country of fools to have put these jackbooted
> >facisit bastards back into office.
> 

Don't worry about it.  Doctress Neutopia can suck Bill's dick,
and all will be fine. {;-)-~

> "Dorothy Denning" is a man in drag. "She" has a bigger dick that
> "her" boyfriend John Gilmore, the cocksucker faggot from EFF.
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Is that cocksucker AC/DC or what?
Is it true that him and John Perry Barlow do 69 on video?                                   
> 
> >-----------------------------------------------------------
> >"William H. Geiger III" <whgiii@amaranth.com>
> >-----------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Just say GAK to chicks with dicks!
> 
> diGriz
> 

Please define "GAK" and leave the headers intact.

-a

On Thu, 28 Nov 1996, aga wrote:

<Ignoring the blatant stupidity, foolish Gilmore- and Denning-baiting and
other general irrelevancies from "aga", William Geiger, and the "Huge
Cojones Remailer" posts>

> Please define "GAK" and leave the headers intact.
> 
> -a

GAK - An acronym coined by cryptographer Carl Ellison (presently employed
by Cybercash) which stands for Government Access to Keys.  It's a
standardized term we (we = folks who are actually interested in the study
of cryptography and the development of public policy surrounding it) use
in the face of constantly changing government terms for what (to us) 
translates to being exactly the same (unacceptable) policy (Key Escrow,
Key Recovery and the various phases of the Clipper development). 

A brief word on abuse... by calling Gilmore or anybody else a "faggot"
doesn't win me over to your cause, as is the case with many others on the
cypherpunks list.  Further, while I may not agree with Dr. Denning's
perspective on these issues, I respect her as a writer, a cryptographer,
and as a computer scientist.  I also (groan if you must)  admire her as a
woman who has maintained such a high-profile position in such a religious
debate, given that she probably gets mail like yours all the time. 


-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
The Semi-Carless Kathleen Ellis    NEW ADDRESS: tgkelli@tiger.towson.edu
I hate the web.			       http://tiger.towson.edu/~tgkelli/
I love encryption.    1996/08/30 Kathleen Ellis <kelli@tiger.towson.edu> 
pub  2047/21853015     F8 D6 96 B2 C6 5A 08 15  43 BE 9E CF 18 8F 1B F0

"Someone tried to get me to run nachos on my box once.  Said it was better
than sunos, more cheese".
						-r4j00g4

In <Pine.SGI.3.93.961128125719.27120A-100000@tiger.towson.edu>, on 11/28/96 
   at 01:46 PM, "Kathleen M. Ellis" <tgkelli@tiger.towson.edu> said:

::[snip]
::A brief word on abuse... by calling Gilmore or anybody else a "faggot"
::doesn't win me over to your cause, as is the case with many others on
::the cypherpunks list.  Further, while I may not agree with Dr. Denning's
::perspective on these issues, I respect her as a writer, a cryptographer,
::and as a computer scientist.  I also (groan if you must)  admire her as
::a woman who has maintained such a high-profile position in such a
::religious debate, given that she probably gets mail like yours all the
::time. 
::
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- ----------------------------------------------------------------------

        good, solid statement of purpose which too few of us practice. 
    it is general human nature to be protective (usually in a jealous 
    sense) of our nurtured opinions. However, that is not an excuse to 
    be abusive of another.  

        It is one thing to be vituperatively demonstrative, another to 
    criticize anothers view point by epithetical allegorations, and 
    another, with careful consideration, to disagree with _civilized_
    clinically definable examples which delineate your viewport.

        ...but I always make an exception for sarcasm!

    or, as I have said before:

    "Profanity is a crutch for inarticulate motherfuckers.
      but profanity is occasionally condonable as enlightened punctuation."
            --attila

    of course,

        "Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent."
                --Isaac Asimov


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--
  without arms they do not resist; 
    without communication they know not what to resist.
        -attila

attila@primenet.com wrote:
> 
> 
>         good, solid statement of purpose which too few of us practice. 
>     it is general human nature to be protective (usually in a jealous 
>     sense) of our nurtured opinions. However, that is not an excuse to 
>     be abusive of another.  

Unfortunatly the "too few of us practice" line could have read
'too few of us on cypherpunks practice'. Crypto has really been
suffused by noise on this list badly. One of the reasons I origionaly
signed on this list was that it was a really happening place for
crypto & cypherpunk-ish "values" (as it were), and other venues were
just "too noisey". I recently, out of dispair, checked some of the
'other' venues, and found them to have 90% more crypto related stuff.
It's rather sad, too much freak ranting & political bs, and too
little crypto. 

>         It is one thing to be vituperatively demonstrative, another to 
>     criticize anothers view point by epithetical allegorations, and 
>     another, with careful consideration, to disagree with _civilized_
>     clinically definable examples which delineate your viewport.
> 
When it comes to the Dennings, (I speak of Mr. & Mrs., they are fairly
blissfully married.) they are two people who are some of the MOST 
flameproof that I have ever seen. Rank insults are NOT going to get
anyone anywhere with them, except to possibly increase their sense
of persecution. Peter Denning is not a very popular guy with everyone
where he works to say the least, and has suffered some absolutly withering
attacks for HIS politics at George Mason university, to a degree that
makes even the most intense crap I've seen tossed around Cypherpunks look
contemptibly childish.

In a nutshell, all this anti-denning ranting on here is bush league,
amateur hour, kiddie stuff compared to what they've gotten elsewhere
for different reasons. (Well marginaly, they're facists, and that
is pretty much a shared theme with their politics in multiple arenas)

If you're one of the people who's written with that slant on this
thread and is going "but"... Trust me, you're both unimpressive and
non-competative on the insult-the-dennings front. As an example,
Peter had his face pasted over that of Hitler's in a poster that was
widely circulated on the GMU campus (that imfamous shot of Hitler
& Mussolini arm in arm, with Mr. M. being another prof.) by anonymous
types who were seeking (I guess <rolls his eyes>) to piss him
off in reply to some of his more extreme academic political positions.

If you want to accomplish something, I'd reccomend developing 
REAL-WORLD arguments to their facisim, and working on making THOSE
withering, rather than wasting time with _talentless_ insults.
Yes the Dennings are scary folks who would be right at home in
1941 Germany, but no, insults arn't going to even break wind in
their direction... You need to do _far_ better.

(with apoligies to attila, who all this was NOT directed at)
Tim Scanlon

In <9611300437.AA05806@adsl-122.cais.com>, on 11/29/96 
   at 11:37 PM, Tim Scanlon <tfs@adsl-122.cais.com> said:

::(with apoligies to attila, who all this was NOT directed at) Tim Scanlon

        no, I didn't read it that way, Tim. thanx for the tag though!  

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----


- ----------------------------------------------------------------------

    follow on:

        I am aware of the Dennings and their politics --and, I suspect 
    like you, have no illusions that much of anything will change their 
    opinions.  Like many, she (I have never met him) appears as a 
    gracious, intelligent individual.

        however, she certainly is a "find" for the Clinton team (who
    appear as fascist in their approach to crypto and gun control as 
    Hitler). Bubba could never have created so exquisite a spokesman...

        1935 will go down in history! For the first time a civilized 
        nation has full gun registration! Our streets will be safer, 
        our police more efficient, and the world will follow our 
        lead in the future!
            --Adolf Hitler

    in fact, protecting free speech through cryptography is even more
    important than gun control (not much, though --they go hand-in-hand)

    ...and, Bubba is writing new history. witness the infamous question
    #46 of a very real questionnaire given to all black-shirt Marine and 
    Seal units --we all _know_ these units do not exist....

            46. The U.S. government declares a ban on the possession, 
            sale, transportation, and transfer of all non-sporting 
            firearms. Consider the following statement:
      
                I would fire upon U.S. citizens who refuse or resist 
                confiscation of firearms banned by the U.S. government.

    this was a survey given at USMC 29 Palms, Pendleton, LeJuene, etc.
    I was aware of the survey _before_ it was given to my son --who 
    _was_ a black-shirt NCO.  The survey also included questions
    covering command and direction from UN officers on US soil, against
    our people.  The Feds tried to pass it off as someones Masters
    research  -a different person at different bases. 

    Now, how does that information get passed around?  am I preaching
    to the choir, yet?    

        In truth, successful dictators are usually very popular. 
        Their regimes are distinguished not by silence but by 
        roaring crowds and festive rallies. Benito Mussolini, 
        Adolf Hitler, Juan Peron, Mao Zedong, and Fidel Castro 
        all mastered the technique of amplifying their support, 
        while reducing opposition to no more than private grumbles. ... 
            --Tyranny Without Dictators, SOBRAN'S March 1996.

    and a made for television sorry excuse for an executive with his
    fingers on the football (which some claim has been taken away from
    him by the SS (notice the similarity in the initials) since the SS
    does not trust his cocaine violence.

        in other words, how about we spend the time productively,
    creating _intelligent_ critiques and opposition to the direct 
    assault on The Bill of Rights by a pack of raving Federalists.

        it's the same old story: Adams, Hamilton, and Madison believed
    in all powerful central governments --in fact, they would have just
    as soon settled for an "American" king.  ...they became the 
    "Federalists."  interesting --Jefferson, who is revered as the 
    founder of the Democratic Party which opposed "Federalists," would
    not accept any responsibility for the tax and spend welfare state
    Democratic Party of today --he'd be a Conservative.

        we, and I mean all of us, who contribute the bulk of the 
    "opinions" to cypherpunks gave the mainstream press the biggest
    possible hole to run straight over us, declaring us anarchists
    and wild-eyed fanatics. unless we as a group mend our ways, and
    turn out intelligent reasoning for the advance of cryptography as
    a mainstream way of life, we will be forever consigned not only to
    the dustbin, but subject to the ridicule of both the press and the
    government.

        None of us are above a little sarcasm --but let's get the 
    vituperative effluent out of the system.  do whatever you wish in
    private mail, but keep the profane rantings off the list.

            this goes for you, Dimitri; and "aga" too.    

        meanwhile, Ms. Denning goes on shilling for the apocalypse...

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attila@primenet.com writes:
>         we, and I mean all of us, who contribute the bulk of the
>     "opinions" to cypherpunks gave the mainstream press the biggest
>     possible hole to run straight over us, declaring us anarchists
>     and wild-eyed fanatics. unless we as a group mend our ways, and
>     turn out intelligent reasoning for the advance of cryptography as
>     a mainstream way of life, we will be forever consigned not only to
>     the dustbin, but subject to the ridicule of both the press and the
>     government.

Ridicule is what John Gilmore and EFF deserve, and more.

>         None of us are above a little sarcasm --but let's get the
>     vituperative effluent out of the system.  do whatever you wish in
>     private mail, but keep the profane rantings off the list.
>
>             this goes for you, Dimitri; and "aga" too.

I suspect John Gilmore is opposed to the spread of cryptography and privacy
technology. He _opposed my efforts to template NPOs for running the anonymous
remailers, because he believes in "identity escrow" - the ability of the
remailer operators to track down and silence whoever "abuses" their network to
say things "homophobic" and otherwise politically incorrect. John Gilmore and
his pack of 'punks would rather see no crypto deployed than widely available
weak crypto with hooks that permit easy replacement by stronger crypto.
Is John Gilmore an NSA plant, an "agent provocateur"?

---

Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM
Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps

On Sat, 30 Nov 1996, Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM wrote:

> attila@primenet.com writes:
> >         we, and I mean all of us, who contribute the bulk of the
> >     "opinions" to cypherpunks gave the mainstream press the biggest
> >     possible hole to run straight over us, declaring us anarchists
> >     and wild-eyed fanatics. unless we as a group mend our ways, and
> >     turn out intelligent reasoning for the advance of cryptography as
> >     a mainstream way of life, we will be forever consigned not only to
> >     the dustbin, but subject to the ridicule of both the press and the
> >     government.
> 
> Ridicule is what John Gilmore and EFF deserve, and more.
> 
> >         None of us are above a little sarcasm --but let's get the
> >     vituperative effluent out of the system.  do whatever you wish in
> >     private mail, but keep the profane rantings off the list.
> >
> >             this goes for you, Dimitri; and "aga" too.
> 

Well, if it does not apply to Boursy, then you are still going
to get a royal ass-kicking. The EFF and Gilmore are too connected
to UUNET and the cabal to have any credibility on this usenet any
m.

And DIG: I never even subscribed to the stupid fucking list!
All I ever did was respond to the cypherpunks out of a courtesy to
never cut headers.  I could give a shit less about whatever you
"punks" do.  I ain't no "punk" and I don't like the word when
there is an admitted faggot at the helm.

And the guy being a faggot is the whole reason why the EFF
or the cypherpunks have no credibility.  A sick fucking culture it
is now defined as, by most onlookers.

> I suspect John Gilmore is opposed to the spread of cryptography and privacy
> technology. He _opposed my efforts to template NPOs for running the anonymous
> remailers, because he believes in "identity escrow" - the ability of the
> remailer operators to track down and silence whoever "abuses" their network to
> say things "homophobic" and otherwise politically incorrect. John Gilmore and
> his pack of 'punks would rather see no crypto deployed than widely available
> weak crypto with hooks that permit easy replacement by stronger crypto.
> Is John Gilmore an NSA plant, an "agent provocateur"?
> 
> ---
> 
> Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM
> Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps
> 

Admitted homosexuals have no place in the modern usenet.
Now keep your replies to the cypherpunks list; I don't
want to hear any more punk shit!

-aga

aga wrote:
> 
>>
>> Ridicule is what John Gilmore and EFF deserve, and more.

  That's to good for them--complete contempt is more called 
for.

 
> Well, if it does not apply to Boursy, then you are still going
> to get a royal ass-kicking. The EFF and Gilmore are too connected
> to UUNET and the cabal to have any credibility on this usenet any
> m.

  
  The EFF is a corporate whore with no interest whatsoever in the
rights of individual users--they will side with the business owners
every time.  And not to forget they signed off on the Exon Ammendment
much to the contempt of the ACLU.

                         Steve

attila@primenet.com wrote:
> In <9611300437.AA05806@adsl-122.cais.com>, on 11/29/96
>    at 11:37 PM, Tim Scanlon <tfs@adsl-122.cais.com> said:
> ::(with apoligies to attila, who all this was NOT directed at) Tim Scanlon
>         no, I didn't read it that way, Tim. thanx for the tag though!

[snip]

I hope a lot of people read this - an excellent post in spite of the
paranoia.  However, there's a suggestion below (and perhaps in the [snip])
that government would use the rants by "aga" and the famous "Doctor" to
cut back on freedom, that somehow it would prove that cypherpunks are
inherently or latently "crazy" or whatever.

It's never been my impression that those kinds of rants had anything to
do with govt. clampdowns, in fact, the clamping down would more likely
follow the cypherpunks' heavy-handed responses to said rants.  Seems to
me that teaching how to filter would be the universal solution.

> 
>         None of us are above a little sarcasm --but let's get the
>     vituperative effluent out of the system.  do whatever you wish in
>     private mail, but keep the profane rantings off the list.
>             this goes for you, Dimitri; and "aga" too.