allow me to state the obvious....

i am your average joe who uses the computer for work and e-mail and the 
occasional jaunt into the internet. going along reading this whole 
crypto-anarchy thing makes me want to cry. the whole point of cryptography 
is getting info from my eyes to yours. period. you can say that "illegal" 
information passes along the internet, but hello people - illegalities have 
been going on since long before the invention of the computer (or even the 
notion of cryptography - if i may stop to point out the obvious).  the only 
reason _i_ use encrypted stuff is because i don't want my nosy sysadmin 
reading my mail.  its that simple.  think about it.  how many times is your 
e-mail handed off?  when sent it naturally follows the most convenient path 
to its destination, and even anonymous re-mailers (can) keep a hard copy of 
the messages that cross their connections with the original address 
included.  you can go off into spoofing address and so on, but your average 
joe may (or may not) have the time or knowledge (much less the motivation) 
to do that.  keep that in mind before you go saying that crypto is a 
good/bad thing. 

---------------------- SUCRUM22@cv62.navy.mil -----------------------
  a calculated risk based on the possible consequence of an action
 is better than a haphazard one based on poor judgment or ignorance
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Don't confuse my views with those of the DoD or the United States Navy

At 5:57 PM -0500 11/9/96, SUCRUM22_at_INDY-ADP@smtp-gw.cv62.navy.mil wrote:
>i am your average joe who uses the computer for work and e-mail and the
>occasional jaunt into the internet. going along reading this whole
>crypto-anarchy thing makes me want to cry. the whole point of cryptography
...

Well, then don't read what we have to say. Unsubscribe from the list or use
filters. That you are happy just to use your computer for work and e-mail
and occasional jaunts into the Internet and that discussions of other
topics bother you should be a clear indication you're probably on the wrong
list.

Having a "navy.mil" domain probably is another reason, unless you are only
hear to monitor our discussions of using cryptography to undermine the
state, to liberate military secrets with BlackNet and the Information
Liberation Front, and to punish the millions of those in the
military-industrial complex who have so richly earned their eventual
punishments.

Smash the State.

--Tim May

"The government announcement is disastrous," said Jim Bidzos,.."We warned IBM
that the National Security Agency would try to twist their technology."
[NYT, 1996-10-02]
We got computers, we're tapping phone lines, I know that that ain't allowed.
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
tcmay@got.net  408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Higher Power: 2^1,257,787-1 | black markets, collapse of governments.
"National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."

Timothy C. May wrote:
> 
> At 5:57 PM -0500 11/9/96, SUCRUM22_at_INDY-ADP@smtp-gw.cv62.navy.mil wrote:
> >i am your average joe who uses the computer for work and e-mail and the
> >occasional jaunt into the internet. going along reading this whole
> >crypto-anarchy thing makes me want to cry. the whole point of cryptography
> ...
> 
> Well, then don't read what we have to say. Unsubscribe from the list or use
> filters. That you are happy just to use your computer for work and e-mail
> and occasional jaunts into the Internet and that discussions of other
> topics bother you should be a clear indication you're probably on the wrong
> list.
> 
> Having a "navy.mil" domain probably is another reason, unless you are only
> hear to monitor our discussions of using cryptography to undermine the
> state, to liberate military secrets with BlackNet and the Information
> Liberation Front, and to punish the millions of those in the
> military-industrial complex who have so richly earned their eventual
> punishments.
> 
> Smash the State.
> 
> --Tim May
> 
> "The government announcement is disastrous," said Jim Bidzos,.."We warned IBM
> that the National Security Agency would try to twist their technology."
> [NYT, 1996-10-02]
> We got computers, we're tapping phone lines, I know that that ain't allowed.
> ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
> Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
> tcmay@got.net  408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
> W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
> Higher Power: 2^1,257,787-1 | black markets, collapse of governments.
> "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."


Please tell me how to unsubscribe from this list.  I have tried several
times to no avail.  Thanks, Bill

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   <EOT>

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   <EOT>

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- ---
"Obviously, the US Constitution isn't perfect, but
it's a lot better than what we have now." - Unknown
PGP key id - 0xDEACDFD1 - Full key available from
pgp-public-keys@pgp.mit.edu


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On Sat, 9 Nov 1996 SUCRUM22_at_INDY-ADP@smtp-gw.cv62.navy.mil wrote:

> i am your average joe who uses the computer for work and e-mail and the 
> occasional jaunt into the internet. going along reading this whole 
> crypto-anarchy thing makes me want to cry. the whole point of cryptography 
> is getting info from my eyes to yours. period. you can say that "illegal" 
> information passes along the internet, but hello people - illegalities have 
> been going on since long before the invention of the computer (or even the 
> notion of cryptography - if i may stop to point out the obvious).  the only 
> reason _i_ use encrypted stuff is because i don't want my nosy sysadmin 
> reading my mail.  its that simple.  think about it.  how many times is your 

Plain cryptography isn't the main point.  The protocols (such as anonymous
digital cash, message pools, DC-nets, etc.) allow things to exist that are
not possible without cryptography.  These protocols make laws (especially
victimless laws) much more difficult to enforce.

> e-mail handed off?  when sent it naturally follows the most convenient path 
> to its destination, and even anonymous re-mailers (can) keep a hard copy of 
> the messages that cross their connections with the original address 
> included.  you can go off into spoofing address and so on, but your average 
> joe may (or may not) have the time or knowledge (much less the motivation) 
> to do that.  keep that in mind before you go saying that crypto is a 
> good/bad thing. 

In order for anonymous remailers to be completely anonymous, only one remailer
in the chain has to be trustworthy.  If a message is chained through N
remailers and N-1 of those remailers are run by spooks, the anonymity of the
message depends on the remaining remailer.

Mark
- -- 
finger -l for PGP key
PGP encrypted mail prefered.

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