Re: [rant] Re: Censorship on cypherpunks

At 09:11 PM 11/6/96 -0800, Dale Thorn wrote:
>What both of these arguments (moreso the first) fail to mention is an
individual's
>investment in time and possibly a lot of money in various memberships, with
expec-
>tations that they will have the opportunity to develop and express
themselves to
>their utmost capability.  When I have a problem with some of the dirty
things my
>representatives in Washington DC do on my behalf, people say "like the U.S. or
>leave it", etc., as though my father, his father, his father, etc. clear
back to
>the 1600's in the colonies here, wasted their blood on the battlefields
defending
>these assholes who like to say "you can just leave if you don't like it".
>
>The squashing of people's dreams begins at birth with selfish and shortsighted
>parents, and since that and other oppressions permeates our brains at every
level, 
>it's a wonder that some people are as accomplished and expressive as they
are.  This
>topic as it's been handled so far by most of the subscribers is prima facie
evidence
>that most of the people in the industrialized countries are just good
little suck-up
>fascists.

Actually, I was comparing some people on the list, who were saying someone
could always start thier own list, with those who advocate telling someone
to start a new country as opposed to making their vote count.  This is a
free country where we, fortunately, don't have to hang around, and, this is
a free list, where we don't have to post or remain subscribers.  I was
saying that telling someone to start their own list was equivalent to
telling them to dig in on an uninhabited island.  I was never advocating
either action.  If you read the previous posts, you can see the one I
responded to and see what I mean.  I know that this may not be possible as
you probably tossed them, but ask me if you would like, I have that post
somewhere in backup.

> Actually, I was comparing some people on the list, who were saying someone
> could always start thier own list, with those who advocate telling someone
> to start a new country as opposed to making their vote count.  This is a
> free country where we, fortunately, don't have to hang around, and, this is
> a free list, where we don't have to post or remain subscribers.  I was
> saying that telling someone to start their own list was equivalent to
> telling them to dig in on an uninhabited island.  I was never advocating

     Please point out to me an "uninhabitated island" that meets the 
following qualifications (Necessary IMO to supporting a "country"):

     1) Is not claimed by _any_ other country. 
     2) Is always at least 1 foot above the water line (necessary IIRC
        for the UN definition of "Country")
     3) Is large enough to provide ariable land for at least 3 people. 
        So that this "Country" can be minimally self sustaining. 

    I ask this question to point out that starting ones "own country" 
is not really within the realm of possibility at this point in time, 
and I would be willing to be that if such an island were found, and
inhabitated by more than 2 people, it would promptly be claimed by another
country, the people would be run off, and the UN would back this up. 


Petro, Christopher C.
petro@suba.com <prefered for any non-list stuff>
snow@smoke.suba.com

On Thu, 7 Nov 1996 10:56:01 -0800 (PST), Sean Roach wrote:

   Actually, I was comparing some people on the list, who were saying someone
   could always start thier own list, with those who advocate telling someone
   to start a new country as opposed to making their vote count.  This is a

This is a ridiculous comparison.

Starting your own country is virtually impossible, not to mention
unthinkably expensive, and if you could do it, it would mean packing
up and physically moving to another location -- something you may not
want to do (especially since your new country would surely have none
of the amenities you're used to -- indoor plumbing, supermarkets,
etc.)  Starting your own list, on the other hand, is almost as easy as
breathing, requires no great expense, and doesn't preclude you from
also being a member of this list.

   free country where we, fortunately, don't have to hang around, and, this is

You don't have to stay in the US, but if you want to leave you do have
to find somewhere else to go.

-- 
Paul Foley <mycroft@actrix.gen.nz>       ---         PGPmail preferred

	   PGP key ID 0x1CA3386D available from keyservers
    fingerprint = 4A 76 83 D8 99 BC ED 33  C5 02 81 C9 BF 7A 91 E8
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Reader, suppose you were an idiot.  And suppose you were a member of
Congress.  But I repeat myself.
		-- Mark Twain