Re: Credentials without Identity--Race Bits

At 12:38 PM 12/11/96 -0800, "Timothy C. May" <tcmay@got.net> wrote:
>Consider a "race credential" offered by some entity. 
..
>(Why some groups might want this is left as an exercise for the reader.
>Perhaps a less-inflammatory example (to some of the sensitive amongst you)
>might be that some women want to interact in "women only" forums--a clear
>case of discrimination, no?--and may want a "gender bit" avaiable to
>display as a credential.)

I've already tried to subscribe to a forum (at the liberal Utne reader!)
where I was rejected because they currently had more subscribers
who identified themselves as "male" than as "female", and they wanted
to maintain a balance.  And certainly "US Citizens Only" sites
are common - nationalism is just as ugly and stupid as racism,
and far more likely to be enforced with ID requirements;
I've heard that in less civilized parts of the world you're actually
required to carry government-issued ID cards to walk down the street
or fly on airplanes.

Another problem is that "nationalist credentials" made hide other data,
such as a race bit, a Jewish bit, a don't-ask-out-loud-don't-tell bit,
a suspected-Commie bit, a check-FBI-files-first bit, etc.  The subliminal 
channels in DSS are the best known method for doing this, but it's probably
possible to do something similar even using blind signatures, especially
if there are multiple keys or timestamp fields.  For example, they could
use different signature keys that are supposedly just "signed at the
New York/LA/Langley/Holtsville/SF/DC office" or "signed 4/1/97 4:20pm".

#			Thanks;  Bill
# Bill Stewart, +1-415-442-2215 stewarts@ix.netcom.com
# You can get PGP outside the US at ftp.ox.ac.uk/pub/crypto/pgp
#     (If this is a mailing list, please Cc: me on replies.  Thanks.)

Bill Stewart wrote:
> I've heard that in less civilized parts of the world you're actually
> required to carry government-issued ID cards to walk down the street
> or fly on airplanes.

Umm.. tried to get on a flight without having ID lately?  Doesn't work -
against policy.  Anti-terrorism policy and all.. it's for your own
safety, of course.
-- 
Vangelis <vangelis@qnis.net> /\oo/\
Finger for public key. PGP KeyID 1024/A558B025
PGP Fingerprint AE E0 BE 68 EE 7B CF 04  02 97 02 86 F0 C7 69 25
Life is my religion, the world is my altar.

Vangelis wrote:
| Bill Stewart wrote:
| > I've heard that in less civilized parts of the world you're actually
| > required to carry government-issued ID cards to walk down the street
| > or fly on airplanes.

| Umm.. tried to get on a flight without having ID lately?  Doesn't work -
| against policy.  Anti-terrorism policy and all.. it's for your own
| safety, of course.

	Yep.  Sucseeded, twice.  Once, having made jokes about
smuggling cocaine.

	Given the poor state of FAA modelling of their threat, I'm not
going to discuss the loopholes that I found, since the FAA will simply
close them, without bothering to wonder about the security
implications.

	I will note that you can't get on board with checked luggage,
and also note that the rules are probably subject to a FOIA request.

Adam
-- 
"It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once."
					               -Hume

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Vangelis wrote:
> 
> Bill Stewart wrote:
> > I've heard that in less civilized parts of the world you're actually
> > required to carry government-issued ID cards to walk down the street
> > or fly on airplanes.
> 
> Umm.. tried to get on a flight without having ID lately?  Doesn't work -
> against policy.  Anti-terrorism policy and all.. it's for your own
> safety, of course.

You beat me to it.

Anyone have the current black-letter regulations? I'll have some time
to kill over the holidays that might as well be used for civil 
disobedience. What's likely to happen to me if I refuse to show ID? 
Provide invalid ID, don't get caught, then publicize the fact? Provide 
invalid ID and get caught? Or, better:

"My wallet was stolen. The only ID I have on me is my ACLU membership 
card and my PGP key. Can I still get on the plane?"

I'm serious. Short domestic flight, no pressing appointments. This could 
be fun.

- -rich
- ---
[This message has been signed by an auto-signing service.  A valid signature
means only that it has been received at the address corresponding to the
signature and forwarded.]

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Vangelis <vangelis@pnis.net> writes:

> Bill Stewart wrote:
> > I've heard that in less civilized parts of the world you're actually
> > required to carry government-issued ID cards to walk down the street
> > or fly on airplanes.
>
> Umm.. tried to get on a flight without having ID lately?  Doesn't work -
> against policy.  Anti-terrorism policy and all.. it's for your own
> safety, of course.

It's funny that this particulae piece of fascist regulation was imposed
by the Klintons after the TWA 800 crash. Now the most likely reasons for
the crash are supposedly a mechanical failure or a U.S.missile - not any
terrorists. But once the fascists gain some ground, they don't give it back.

---

Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM
Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps

Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM wrote:
> > Umm.. tried to get on a flight without having ID lately?  Doesn't work -
> > against policy.  Anti-terrorism policy and all.. it's for your own
> > safety, of course.
> 
> It's funny that this particulae piece of fascist regulation was imposed
> by the Klintons after the TWA 800 crash. Now the most likely reasons for

Um, not it wasn't.  Not that I wouldn't put it past them, but I read a
1st-hand account of someone having this problem months before TWA 800
took a bath.
-- 
Vangelis <vangelis@qnis.net> /\oo/\
Finger for public key. PGP KeyID 1024/A558B025
PGP Fingerprint AE E0 BE 68 EE 7B CF 04  02 97 02 86 F0 C7 69 25
Life is my religion, the world is my altar.

Vangelis <vangelis@qnis.net> writes:

> Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM wrote:
> > > Umm.. tried to get on a flight without having ID lately?  Doesn't work -
> > > against policy.  Anti-terrorism policy and all.. it's for your own
> > > safety, of course.
> >
> > It's funny that this particulae piece of fascist regulation was imposed
> > by the Klintons after the TWA 800 crash. Now the most likely reasons for
>
> Um, not it wasn't.  Not that I wouldn't put it past them, but I read a
> 1st-hand account of someone having this problem months before TWA 800
> took a bath.

Yes it was.

---

Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM
Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps

At 5:28 AM -0800 12/20/96, Adam Shostack wrote:
>Vangelis wrote:
>| Bill Stewart wrote:
>| > I've heard that in less civilized parts of the world you're actually
>| > required to carry government-issued ID cards to walk down the street
>| > or fly on airplanes.
>
>| Umm.. tried to get on a flight without having ID lately?  Doesn't work -
>| against policy.  Anti-terrorism policy and all.. it's for your own
>| safety, of course.
>
>	Yep.  Sucseeded, twice.  Once, having made jokes about
>smuggling cocaine.

A question for agent Kallestrom (sp?):  If TWA800 went down due to
mechanical failure (a spark blowing up the fuselage fuel tank), do we get
our freedoms back?


-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bill Frantz       | I still read when I should | Periwinkle -- Consulting
(408)356-8506     | be doing something else.   | 16345 Englewood Ave.
frantz@netcom.com | It's a vice. - R. Heinlein | Los Gatos, CA 95032, USA

Carl Johnson wrote:
> 
> Rich Graves wrote:
> > "My wallet was stolen. The only ID I have on me is my ACLU membership
> > card and my PGP key. Can I still get on the plane?"
> 
> Rich,
>   How about, "I have copies of the eMail I sent, as 'fuck@yourself.up, can I
> still get on the plane?"
>   Let's hope that the security guard is a CypherPunk.  Maybe he'll let him
> 'off' the plane at 30,000 feet.
> -
> Reply to:toto@sk.sympatico.ca
> "There's only one two."

-- 
Reply to:toto@sk.sympatico.ca
"There's only one two."

At 1:22 AM -0800 12/20/96, Vangelis wrote:
>Bill Stewart wrote:
>> I've heard that in less civilized parts of the world you're actually
>> required to carry government-issued ID cards to walk down the street
>> or fly on airplanes.
>
>Umm.. tried to get on a flight without having ID lately?  Doesn't work -
>against policy.  Anti-terrorism policy and all.. it's for your own
>safety, of course.

At the risk of undercutting Bill's facetiousness, this was of course
precisely his point.

(Note: To a lot of us, even seeing the English form "I've heard that in
less civilized countries...." is almost a direct cue that a facetious
(tongue in cheek, ironic, etc.) remark is about to follow.)

I've heard that in less civilized countries, the same cues for irony may
not be widely known.


--Tim May

Just say "No" to "Big Brother Inside"
We got computers, we're tapping phone lines, I know that that ain't allowed.
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
tcmay@got.net  408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Higher Power: 2^1398269     | black markets, collapse of governments.
"National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."

"Timothy C. May" <tcmay@got.net> writes:

> (Note: To a lot of us, even seeing the English form "I've heard that in
> less civilized countries...." is almost a direct cue that a facetious
> (tongue in cheek, ironic, etc.) remark is about to follow.)
>
> I've heard that in less civilized countries, the same cues for irony may
> not be widely known.

Why is the fascist United State of America considered a "civilized country"?

---

Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM
Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps

>Bill Stewart wrote:
>> I've heard that in less civilized parts of the world you're actually
>> required to carry government-issued ID cards to walk down the street
>> or fly on airplanes.
>
>Umm.. tried to get on a flight without having ID lately?  Doesn't work -
>against policy.  Anti-terrorism policy and all.. it's for your own
>safety, of course.

Flew down to LA recently with a firearm (checked, of course).

Looking over the ticket later, I was mildly surprised to find "GUN" in
a string of otherwise unintelligible text.

Anyone know if this is they way it's been, or if this is YA "Anti-terrorism
security measure"? Goes without saying that this data would most likely
wind up as part of the "travel profiles" the gov't wants to compile. Could
they be starting early?

The carrier was Alaska Airlines, if it matters.

As far as the photo-id went, they didn't copy any data off it or try to
authenticate, just made sure it was my picture.

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In list.cypherpunks, aaron@herringn.com writes:

> Flew down to LA recently with a firearm (checked, of course).
>
> Looking over the ticket later, I was mildly surprised to find "GUN" in
> a string of otherwise unintelligible text.

Probably a coincidence.  The last time I flew with a checked gun was
1980.  Back then, they just asked you to declare it.  In fact, I forgot
to declare it in Seattle, and in a fit of concience told a ticket agent.
Whereupon I was given a most nifty tour of the bowels of Sea-Tac to show
an agent that the piece wasn't loaded and that there was no ammo in the
same bag.  Ah, the good old days...

> The carrier was Alaska Airlines, if it matters.

I've flown tens of thousands of miles on Alaska Airlines... they were
always very mellow about things other airlines seemed tense about.

> As far as the photo-id went, they didn't copy any data off it or try to
> authenticate, just made sure it was my picture.

One more quick anecdote:  Back in January, I happened to be "between
picture id's" and needed to fly.  I showed a 2 year expired Alaska
driver license.  The clerk had a tough time finding the DL number (I had
to show him where it was), but didn't even notice the expiration date.
He did copy the DL number into his terminal, though.
- -- 
           Roy M. Silvernail     [ ]      roy@scytale.com
DNRC Minister Plenipotentiary of All Things Confusing, Software Division
PGP Public Key fingerprint =  31 86 EC B9 DB 76 A7 54  13 0B 6A 6B CC 09 18 B6
                Key available from pubkey@scytale.com

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