Re: Ebonics

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At 05:04 PM 12/21/96 -0800, Jamie Lawrence wrote:
>Are you honestly arguing that a system of communication
>acknoledged and taught in a public school is satisfying
>a 'need or desire to communicate in a private way"?

Actually I meant my tongue to be relatively firmly in cheek.  However, some
sub-cultures from which ebonics comes did have a need and desire to
communicate quickly and privately.

>Or that Ebonics has anything to do with communicating
>in the presence of a police officer?

Often times in some areas of this country, people distrust the police.
They do form ways of communication that is not easily understood to avoid
what they see as police interference.  I am not defending use of
communication privacy techniques in the name of the four-horsemen but...

>
>Or that either of the above has anything to do with crypto?
>

As Tim and others have said repeatedly, there is no on/off topic here.
Want pure code goto coderpunks; want moderation goto cryptography.  I am
just trying to counter some of the statements made here.  Sometimes people
view cpunks as some sort of borg-like mind with no dissidents.  I sometimes
reply to let people know that might not be so...

Matt

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"Matthew J. Miszewski" <mjmiski@execpc.com> writes:
> just trying to counter some of the statements made here.  Sometimes people
> view cpunks as some sort of borg-like mind with no dissidents.

"Cypher punks" is a private mailing list owned by the asshole censor John
Gilmore who unsubscribes whoever dares post something John doesn't like.

His mailing list is a laughing stock for the media.

---

Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM
Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps

On Sun, 22 Dec 1996, Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM wrote:

> "Matthew J. Miszewski" <mjmiski@execpc.com> writes:
> > just trying to counter some of the statements made here.  Sometimes people
> > view cpunks as some sort of borg-like mind with no dissidents.
> 
> "Cypher punks" is a private mailing list owned by the asshole censor John
> Gilmore who unsubscribes whoever dares post something John doesn't like.

QED, he must REALLY like you since you're obviously still here; either 
that, or you're full of shit as usual.

=====================================Kaos=Keraunos=Kybernetos==============
.+.^.+.|  Ray Arachelian    | "If  you're  gonna die,  die  with your|./|\.
..\|/..|sunder@sundernet.com|boots on;  If you're  gonna  try,  just |/\|/\
<--*-->| ------------------ |stick around; Gonna cry? Just move along|\/|\/
../|\..| "A toast to Odin,  |you're gonna die, you're gonna die!"    |.\|/.
.+.v.+.|God of screwdrivers"|  --Iron Maiden "Die With Your Boots on"|.....
======================== http://www.sundernet.com =========================

Ray Arachelian <sunder@brainlink.com> writes:

> On Sun, 22 Dec 1996, Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM wrote:
>
> > "Matthew J. Miszewski" <mjmiski@execpc.com> writes:
> > > just trying to counter some of the statements made here.  Sometimes peopl
> > > view cpunks as some sort of borg-like mind with no dissidents.
> >
> > "Cypher punks" is a private mailing list owned by the asshole censor John
> > Gilmore who unsubscribes whoever dares post something John doesn't like.
>
> QED, he must REALLY like you since you're obviously still here; either
> that, or you're full of shit as usual.

I'm sure Earthnet must be *very* embarrassed about having hired such a lying
twit for ssociate network manager. For those who haven't gotten the story
straight, or are confused by the lies being spread by the various genocidal
Armenian maniacs (like Dale seemed to be at one point), I'll reiterate:

John Gilmore unsubscribed me from this mailing list (in a very rude manner)
and I am not allowed to resubscribe. I am not subscribed to this mailing list.

John Gilmore announced on this mailing list that he did it because he didn't
like the content of my submissions. He repeated this to Declan McCullough.

Later, when he realized how badly his censorship reflected on him and his EFF,
he had Timmy May post another lie, claiming that I was kicked off this list
for posting too much, and defending Gilmore's content-based censorship.

Ray Arachelian obviously lies again when he claims that I'm "obviously
still here". But what else could be expected from an Armenian.

---

Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM
Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps

On Mon, 23 Dec 1996, Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM wrote:

> John Gilmore unsubscribed me from this mailing list (in a very rude manner)
> and I am not allowed to resubscribe. I am not subscribed to this mailing list.

Funny, you post messages here, you read messages from here, IMHO, you 
haven't been unscumscribed.

> Ray Arachelian obviously lies again when he claims that I'm "obviously
> still here". But what else could be expected from an Armenian.

Right, when caught in a lie, point to the other guy, claim he's lying and 
say "What else could be expected from an Armenian."  Wheeee.  Sure Vileus, 
whatever turns you on.

=====================================Kaos=Keraunos=Kybernetos==============
.+.^.+.|  Ray Arachelian    | "If  you're  gonna die,  die  with your|./|\.
..\|/..|sunder@sundernet.com|boots on;  If you're  gonna  try,  just |/\|/\
<--*-->| ------------------ |stick around; Gonna cry? Just move along|\/|\/
../|\..| "A toast to Odin,  |you're gonna die, you're gonna die!"    |.\|/.
.+.v.+.|God of screwdrivers"|  --Iron Maiden "Die With Your Boots on"|.....
======================== http://www.sundernet.com =========================

Ray Arachelian wrote:
> On Mon, 23 Dec 1996, Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM wrote:
> > John Gilmore unsubscribed me from this mailing list (in a very rude manner)
> > and I am not allowed to resubscribe. I am not subscribed to this mailing list.

> Funny, you post messages here, you read messages from here, IMHO, you
> haven't been unscumscribed.

Dr. Vulis has in fact been forcibly unsubscribed.  He's on my "who
cypherpunks" list as of 12 Oct 1996, but does not appear as of
04 Nov, 30 Nov, and 18 Dec, when I last asked for a list.

The fact that he still reads the list and does posts only adds to the
arguments against censorship, specifically John Gilmore's censorship.
(This has got to be embarrassing for Gilmore, hee hee.  I'll bet he
practices keeping a straight face in front of a mirror, in case anyone
brings it up in person.)

If, as has been said, assassination is the ultimate form of censorship,
then Dr. Vulis has been shot, stoned, beat on, and cement-booted, but
he still lives and is a thorn (no pun intended) in the side of would-
be censors on the Internet.

Dale Thorn writes:

> Dr. Vulis has in fact been forcibly unsubscribed.  He's on my "who
> cypherpunks" list as of 12 Oct 1996, but does not appear as of
> 04 Nov, 30 Nov, and 18 Dec, when I last asked for a list.

> The fact that he still reads the list and does posts only adds to the
> arguments against censorship, specifically John Gilmore's censorship.
> (This has got to be embarrassing for Gilmore, hee hee.  I'll bet he
> practices keeping a straight face in front of a mirror, in case anyone
> brings it up in person.)

The list is archived on the Web in real time, and you don't have to 
be a subscriber to post to it.  I have participated in the list during
periods when I was not "suscrived" with little noticable loss in 
functionality. 

Facts, which, if known to Gilmore, would have prevented him from making
a public ass of himself.  Heck, we never unsubscribed Detweiler, and
he was certainly consuming orders of magnitude more bandwidth than the
good doctor ever has, regardless of what one may think of the S/N ratio. 

--
     Mike Duvos         $    PGP 2.6 Public Key available     $
     mpd@netcom.com     $    via Finger.                      $

While on the subject of Yebonics:

The following funny (what else) article just showed up in my rec.humor.funny:

]From: feuer@netcom.com (Ted Feuerbach)
]Newsgroups: rec.humor.funny
]Subject: Ebonics: Other New Dialects
]Keywords: topical, smirk, stereotypes
]Message-ID: <Sa7e.25b1@clarinet.com>
]Date: Tue, 24 Dec 96 3:20:01 EST
]Lines: 26
]Approved: funny-request@clari.net
]
]With the Oakland (California) School District accepting Ebonics
](Black English) as a Second Language, I decided that speakers of
]other dialects will want theirs too.
]
]People from:  West Virginia  - Hillbonics
]
]              Jamaica        - Mononics
]
]              Scotland       - Hootmononics
]
]              The Southwest  - Hisponics
]
]              Texas          - JoeBonics
]
]              Extreme North  - Eh?onics
]
]
]The whole concept:  Moronics
]
]--
]Selected by Jim Griffith.  MAIL your joke to funny@clari.net.
]The "executive moderator" is Brad Templeton.
]
]Please!  No copyrighted stuff.  Also no "mouse balls," dyslexic agnostics,
]Clinton/Yeltsin/Gates meets God, or "OJ will walk" jokes.  For the full
]submission guidelines, see http://comedy.clari.net/rhf/

---

Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM
Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps

On Mon, 23 Dec 1996, Dale Thorn wrote:

> Dr. Vulis has in fact been forcibly unsubscribed.  He's on my "who
> cypherpunks" list as of 12 Oct 1996, but does not appear as of
> 04 Nov, 30 Nov, and 18 Dec, when I last asked for a list.

As far as majordomo is concerned, - yes.  However, there are those who 
subscribe invisible and therefore wouldn't show up when you say "who 
cypherpunks" to majordomo@toad.com.
 
> The fact that he still reads the list and does posts only adds to the
> arguments against censorship, specifically John Gilmore's censorship.
> (This has got to be embarrassing for Gilmore, hee hee.  I'll bet he
> practices keeping a straight face in front of a mirror, in case anyone
> brings it up in person.)

I will not argue on John's reaction since I do not know him, nor have I 
met him, however, the fact that Vulis posts and reads cypherpunks means 
he's still here.

> If, as has been said, assassination is the ultimate form of censorship,
> then Dr. Vulis has been shot, stoned, beat on, and cement-booted, but
> he still lives and is a thorn (no pun intended) in the side of would-
> be censors on the Internet.

If he had been ultimatly censored, shot, stoned, beat on, and 
cement-booted, he certainly wouldn't be able to post.  He's still here. 
So the above is bullshit.

It's not a question that he found a way to read from and post to the 
cypherpunks list.  He hasn't been prevented from doing so, therefore his 
unsubscription hasn't been enforced, so he's still here.

If before he was unsubscribed he was able to post messages and read 
messages, and now that he's unsubscribed he's able to post messages and 
read messages, what's the difference to the rest of us on the list?  As 
far as we can see, he's still subscribed.  Never mind that he gets his 
messages from usenet or elsewhere, he's still here.  There is NO 
difference to the rest of cypherpunks.

=====================================Kaos=Keraunos=Kybernetos==============
.+.^.+.|  Ray Arachelian    | "If  you're  gonna die,  die  with your|./|\.
..\|/..|sunder@sundernet.com|boots on;  If you're  gonna  try,  just |/\|/\
<--*-->| ------------------ |stick around; Gonna cry? Just move along|\/|\/
../|\..| "A toast to Odin,  |you're gonna die, you're gonna die!"    |.\|/.
.+.v.+.|God of screwdrivers"|  --Iron Maiden "Die With Your Boots on"|.....
======================== http://www.sundernet.com =========================

Ray Arachelian <sunder@brainlink.com> writes:
> If before he was unsubscribed he was able to post messages and read
> messages, and now that he's unsubscribed he's able to post messages and
> read messages, what's the difference to the rest of us on the list?  As
> far as we can see, he's still subscribed.  Never mind that he gets his
> messages from usenet or elsewhere, he's still here.  There is NO
> difference to the rest of cypherpunks.

Your English isn't so good, Ray... I am not a "cypher punk", so you
shouldn't speak of "the rest of" "cypher punks".

If John's punitive action in response to my speech makes no difference to you,
then why did you ask him to do it, and why did you commend him afterwards?

---

Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM
Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps

On Tue, 24 Dec 1996, Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM wrote:

> Your English isn't so good, Ray... I am not a "cypher punk", so you
> shouldn't speak of "the rest of" "cypher punks".

Then why do you continue posting here?  If you aren't a cypherpunk, go away.
 
> If John's punitive action in response to my speech makes no difference to you,
> then why did you ask him to do it, and why did you commend him afterwards?

I'm only disappointed that you are still here, that's all.


=====================================Kaos=Keraunos=Kybernetos==============
.+.^.+.|  Ray Arachelian    | "If  you're  gonna die,  die  with your|./|\.
..\|/..|sunder@sundernet.com|boots on;  If you're  gonna  try,  just |/\|/\
<--*-->| ------------------ |stick around; Gonna cry? Just move along|\/|\/
../|\..| "A toast to Odin,  |you're gonna die, you're gonna die!"    |.\|/.
.+.v.+.|God of screwdrivers"|  --Iron Maiden "Die With Your Boots on"|.....
======================== http://www.sundernet.com =========================

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On Tue, 24 Dec 1996, Ray Arachelian wrote:

> > If, as has been said, assassination is the ultimate form of censorship,
> > then Dr. Vulis has been shot, stoned, beat on, and cement-booted, but
> > he still lives and is a thorn (no pun intended) in the side of would-
> > be censors on the Internet.
> 
> If he had been ultimatly censored, shot, stoned, beat on, and 
> cement-booted, he certainly wouldn't be able to post.  He's still here. 
> So the above is bullshit.

It's extremely trivial to prevent someone from posting to a mailing list.  The
fact that John Gilmore has not done this probably means that he doesn't want to
rather than an inability to do the above.

> It's not a question that he found a way to read from and post to the 
> cypherpunks list.  He hasn't been prevented from doing so, therefore his 
> unsubscription hasn't been enforced, so he's still here.

Anyone can read cypherpunks and there's not much anyone can do to prevent
someone from receiving list traffic.  However, this doesn't really matter.  An
ISP that pulls the plug on a spammer doesn't try to prevent that person from
reading or posting to that newsgroup.  That person won't be able to do it
using the ISP's resources.

Mark
- -- 
finger -l for PGP key
PGP encrypted mail prefered.
0xf9b22ba5 now revoked

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Mark M. writes:
> 
>It's extremely trivial to prevent someone from posting to a mailing list.  The
>fact that John Gilmore has not done this probably means that he doesn't want to
> rather than an inability to do the above.

Short of 1) moderating the list or 2) restricting new subscriptions to the
list, it's almost impossible to prevent someone from posting to a
mailing list.  As soon as you "block" posts from one address, the
determined poster can sign up from another address.  All it takes
is paying money to a few ISPs, or changing his AOL userid.

The determined poster could even grab a subscriber list from the lists's
mailserver, and send his message to each member individually.

-- 
Eric Murray  ericm@lne.com  ericm@motorcycle.com  http://www.lne.com/ericm
PGP keyid:E03F65E5 fingerprint:50 B0 A2 4C 7D 86 FC 03  92 E8 AC E6 7E 27 29 AF

Eric Murray <ericm@lne.com> writes:

> The determined poster could even grab a subscriber list from the lists's
> mailserver, and send his message to each member individually.

I can't quite do that either because majordomo@toad.com has been instructed
to silently ignore *all* requests from me, including "who".

---

Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM
Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps

Ray Arachelian wrote:
> On Mon, 23 Dec 1996, Dale Thorn wrote:
> > Dr. Vulis has in fact been forcibly unsubscribed.  He's on my "who
> > cypherpunks" list as of 12 Oct 1996, but does not appear as of
> > 04 Nov, 30 Nov, and 18 Dec, when I last asked for a list.

> As far as majordomo is concerned, - yes.  However, there are those who
> subscribe invisible and therefore wouldn't show up when you say "who
> cypherpunks" to majordomo@toad.com.

I subscribed to this list at the recommendation of someone else, and at
the time it was my first experience on the "new" Internet, i.e., browsers
and such (three years ago when I got on and off it was numeric menus only
as far as I know).  It's interesting to me how many ways there are to do
things, and how many ways there are to get around them.

For example, there must have been more than one way Gilmore could have
dealt with Dimitri (he chose the worst), and there must have been several
ways Dimitri could get around the ban (he chose a very easy methodology,
apparently, which sure makes me wonder what Gilmore was trying to do).

> It's not a question that he found a way to read from and post to the
> cypherpunks list.  He hasn't been prevented from doing so, therefore his
> unsubscription hasn't been enforced, so he's still here.

Hasn't been enforced?  Are you saying that Gilmore is trying to tell us:
"Hi, I'm John Gilmore. I'm cutting Dr. Vulis off the list, but actually,
I'm not cutting him off. Hee hee." (April Fools, or something like that).
I can handle the humor, if that's what you're getting at.

> If before he was unsubscribed he was able to post messages and read
> messages, and now that he's unsubscribed he's able to post messages and
> read messages, what's the difference to the rest of us on the list?  As
> far as we can see, he's still subscribed.  Never mind that he gets his
> messages from usenet or elsewhere, he's still here.  There is NO
> difference to the rest of cypherpunks.

Well, if there was *no* difference, why was there so much traffic on it?
I dare say that that thread was the biggest (and most divisive) of all time.

Ray Arachelian <sunder@brainlink.com> writes:

> On Mon, 23 Dec 1996, Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM wrote:
>
> > John Gilmore unsubscribed me from this mailing list (in a very rude manner)
> > and I am not allowed to resubscribe. I am not subscribed to this mailing li
>
> Funny, you post messages here, you read messages from here, IMHO, you
> haven't been unscumscribed.

Now you're calling John Gilmore a liar, because he admitted pulling my plug:

]Received: (from majordom@localhost) by toad.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id CAA17866 for cypherpunks-outgoing; Sat, 2 Nov 1996 02:13:32 -0800 (PST)
]Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by toad.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id CAA17861; Sat, 2 Nov 1996 02:13:26 -0800 (PST)
]Message-Id: <199611021013.CAA17861@toad.com>
]X-Authentication-Warning: toad.com: Host localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol
]To: cypherpunks@toad.com, gnu@toad.com
]Subject: Dr. Vulis is not on cypherpunks any more
]Date: Sat, 02 Nov 1996 02:13:26 -0800
]From: John Gilmore <gnu@toad.com>
]Sender: owner-cypherpunks@toad.com
]Precedence: bulk
]
]As stated by Dr. Vulis, he is no longer on the cypherpunks mailing
]list, and indeed majordomo@toad.com HAS been instructed to ignore his
]requests to resubscribe.
]
]I removed him, on my own initiative.  I got tired of asking him to
]stop stirring up flames.  When he posted a message saying that we'd
]have to use technical means to stop him from flaming the list, I said,
]"OK".
]
]Tim May was not involved.
]
]I've met Dr. Vulis in person.  He seemed like a reasonable guy.  I
]treated him that way for months, despite his inability to control
]himself on the list.  When he ultimately declined to control his
]outbursts after numerous personal requests, I removed him.
]
]The cypherpunks list is for discussions centered around cryptography.
]I'm sure there are several mailing lists where ethnic cleansing
]discussions would be welcome.  There are probably even mailing lists
]which encourage people to fire off their best inflammatory messages.
]If there aren't, Dr Vulis could start one.  I don't sponsor any.
]
]Cypherpunks, please resist your own temptation to bait him (or anyone
]else).  The best defense a mailing list has against flames is to
]simply ignore them.  When they don't provoke an emotional response,
]they don't accomplish the poster's goal, and the poster eventually
]wanders off in search of more naive pastures.
]
]	John Gilmore
]

Note that John clearly unsubscribed me because he didn't like the contents
of my messages. Later Timmy May claimed that it had something to do with the
size of my submissions (another lie).

---

Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM
Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps

> ]To: cypherpunks@toad.com, gnu@toad.com
> ]Subject: Dr. Vulis is not on cypherpunks any more
> ]From: John Gilmore <gnu@toad.com>

> ]As stated by Dr. Vulis, he is no longer on the cypherpunks mailing
> ]list, and indeed majordomo@toad.com HAS been instructed to ignore his
> ]requests to resubscribe.
> ]
> ]The cypherpunks list is for discussions centered around cryptography.

   I agree totally.  My friends in Berkeley agree that cryptography 
discussions should stick to more relevant topics, like Ebonics.  We had
a lively debate, over tea and crumpets, the other day, and decided that 
it was well worth sorting through pages and pages of 'crackers' making 
fun of 'niggah tok' in order to find out that crack dealers are using
'street cryptography.'
   As well, there were some enlightening posts re: Ebonics syntax; 
clarifying the proper use of 'dis' and 'dat'.

   Some in our group were of the mind that Dr.VD K's occasional rants 
in regard to mass slaughter were a timely reminder of the end result 
of individuals, groups, or governments being able to 'classify' us 
into categories that can be marked for 'deletion'.
   But they were mostly 'domestic' tea-drinkers, anyway, so their views
are really of little importance.  The majority were happy that you 
marked Dr. DV K for 'deletion'.

   Our topic of discussion tomorrow will be, "Censorship / The 'Final
Solution' to Dr. DV K, Or Just 'Attack Cryptography'?"
   There are those of the mind that censorship is comparable to
distributing 'bogus' copies of a person's Public Key, and scrambling
their Private Key, effectively denying them any communication with
society.  However, these people are, once again, the 'domestic' tea-
drinkers.

   I am sure that your actions in regard to Dr. Vulius will be a strong 
message to other CypherPunks that they had better toe-the-line, or else.
   Perhaps it would also be useful to go through the CypherPunk archives 
and send personal warnings to those on the list who appear to have
encouraged him in the past.  If their postings leave their attitude 
unclear in your mind, then you might want to check their 'web history'
and find out what sites they have been visiting, to confirm whether 
or not they are of an 'acceptable' frame of mind.

Sincerely,
  Toto

On Mon, 23 Dec 1996, Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM wrote:

> Ray Arachelian <sunder@brainlink.com> writes:
> 
> > On Mon, 23 Dec 1996, Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM wrote:
> >
> > > John Gilmore unsubscribed me from this mailing list (in a very rude manner)
> > > and I am not allowed to resubscribe. I am not subscribed to this mailing li
> >
> > Funny, you post messages here, you read messages from here, IMHO, you
> > haven't been unscumscribed.
> 
> Now you're calling John Gilmore a liar, because he admitted pulling my plug:

<... deletia...>

Right, I agree that you have been removed from majordomo's list of 
"subscribers" however you haven't been removed in as much as you can 
still read the list and in as much as you can post messages.  

So what is the difference were you subscribed?  Were you subscribed you 
could also post and read messages.  Now that you are unsubscribed, you 
can also post and read messages.  What's the difference?

Whatever Mr. Gilmore did made no differece.  You still read.  You still 
post.  If he wanted to totally remove you, you wouldn't be able to post 
at all.  Yet, you still do.  The rumors of your forced unsubscription are 
clearly greatly exaturated.

> Note that John clearly unsubscribed me because he didn't like the contents
> of my messages. Later Timmy May claimed that it had something to do with the
> size of my submissions (another lie).

And yet, you post to cypherpunks@toad.com, and you read messages from 
cypherpunks@toad.com. QED: You're still here.

=====================================Kaos=Keraunos=Kybernetos==============
.+.^.+.|  Ray Arachelian    | "If  you're  gonna die,  die  with your|./|\.
..\|/..|sunder@sundernet.com|boots on;  If you're  gonna  try,  just |/\|/\
<--*-->| ------------------ |stick around; Gonna cry? Just move along|\/|\/
../|\..| "A toast to Odin,  |you're gonna die, you're gonna die!"    |.\|/.
.+.v.+.|God of screwdrivers"|  --Iron Maiden "Die With Your Boots on"|.....
======================== http://www.sundernet.com =========================

Ray Arachelian <sunder@brainlink.com> writes:

> Right, I agree that you have been removed from majordomo's list of
> "subscribers" however you haven't been removed in as much as you can
> still read the list and in as much as you can post messages.

Is that what you had in mind when you repeatedly asked John Gilmore to remove
me from his mailing list, Ray?  You made both of you look like real assholes.

---

Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM
Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps

Ray Arachelian wrote:
> On Mon, 23 Dec 1996, Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM wrote:
> > Ray Arachelian <sunder@brainlink.com> writes:
> > > On Mon, 23 Dec 1996, Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM wrote:
> > > > John Gilmore unsubscribed me from this mailing list (in a very rude manner)
> > > > and I am not allowed to resubscribe. I am not subscribed to this mailing li

> And yet, you post to cypherpunks@toad.com, and you read messages from
> cypherpunks@toad.com. QED: You're still here.

This must be what is called a nonsequitur.  He can *always* be here,
one way or another.  That was never the point.

On Tue, 24 Dec 1996, Dale Thorn wrote:

> This must be what is called a nonsequitur.  He can *always* be here,
> one way or another.  That was never the point.

It is my point.

=====================================Kaos=Keraunos=Kybernetos==============
.+.^.+.|  Ray Arachelian    | "If  you're  gonna die,  die  with your|./|\.
..\|/..|sunder@sundernet.com|boots on;  If you're  gonna  try,  just |/\|/\
<--*-->| ------------------ |stick around; Gonna cry? Just move along|\/|\/
../|\..| "A toast to Odin,  |you're gonna die, you're gonna die!"    |.\|/.
.+.v.+.|God of screwdrivers"|  --Iron Maiden "Die With Your Boots on"|.....
======================== http://www.sundernet.com =========================

Carl Johnson wrote:
> > ]To: cypherpunks@toad.com, gnu@toad.com
> > ]Subject: Dr. Vulis is not on cypherpunks any more
> > ]From: John Gilmore <gnu@toad.com>
> > ]As stated by Dr. Vulis, he is no longer on the cypherpunks mailing
> > ]list, and indeed majordomo@toad.com HAS been instructed to ignore his
> > ]requests to resubscribe.
> > ]The cypherpunks list is for discussions centered around cryptography.

> I agree totally.  My friends in Berkeley agree that cryptography
> discussions should stick to more relevant topics, like Ebonics.[snip]
> Our topic of discussion tomorrow will be, "Censorship / The 'Final
> Solution' to Dr. DV K, Or Just 'Attack Cryptography'?"
> I am sure that your actions in regard to Dr. Vulius will be a strong
> message to other CypherPunks that they had better toe-the-line, or else.[snip]

Be careful, Carl.  The last guy ("George the Greek") on the list who
dared show this much audacity/humor has disappeared. I hope he's safe
wherever he is, but then again, I wouldn't hold my breath. After all,
this is a crypto list, and there are all those NSA spooks watching
everything we do....

Dale Thorn <dthorn@gte.net> writes:

> this is a crypto list, and there are all those NSA spooks watching
> everything we do....

Watching and laughing, no doubt.

---

Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM
Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps

On Tue, 24 Dec 1996, Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM wrote:

> Dale Thorn <dthorn@gte.net> writes:
> 
> > this is a crypto list, and there are all those NSA spooks watching
> > everything we do....
> 
> Watching and laughing, no doubt.

And paying you to cause FUD, no doubt.

=====================================Kaos=Keraunos=Kybernetos==============
.+.^.+.|  Ray Arachelian    | "If  you're  gonna die,  die  with your|./|\.
..\|/..|sunder@sundernet.com|boots on;  If you're  gonna  try,  just |/\|/\
<--*-->| ------------------ |stick around; Gonna cry? Just move along|\/|\/
../|\..| "A toast to Odin,  |you're gonna die, you're gonna die!"    |.\|/.
.+.v.+.|God of screwdrivers"|  --Iron Maiden "Die With Your Boots on"|.....
======================== http://www.sundernet.com =========================