Re: Hardening lists against spam attacks

At 11:47 AM 12/31/1996, Lucky Green wrote:
>At 10:25 AM 12/31/96 -0800, Peter Hendrickson wrote:
>> The easiest and fastest solution is to set up toad.com to charge a
>> dollar per message.  (Proceeds to be spent by John Gilmore as he
>> sees fit.)

>> We can then leverage off the existing e-cash infrastructure which
>> already provides blinding software for free on all major platforms.

> I am not sure that this proposal would work. Some of the spammers on this
> list are rather dedicated. They might gladly pay a dollar per message.

Let's try it and see how it goes.  If it doesn't work, we can try
a more complicated scheme.  (I volunteer to modify Majordomo to
make this happen.  We could have this feature in the near future.)

I think we should understand that two features are being discussed.

One is protecting the list from spam attacks.  By this I mean attacks
where somebody sends very large numbers of messages to the list
and brings the mail server to its knees.  Charging a dollar a message
solves this problem - just buy more hardware with the proceeds.  If The
Enemy wishes to finance the cypherpunks list - more power to him.

The other feature is filtering.  I do not need anybody to filter
my mail.  I am quite capable of doing it myself, thank you.

If somebody wants to set up a tokened filter scheme, that
is great, but let's see it implemented as an added header to
the cypherpunks messages.  Then people can filter on it if they
want, but it should be their choice.

Anybody who cannot set up such a filter, or find somebody who can
set up such a filter for them, or cannot find somebody who will
forward only filtered messages to them, is too helpless to be a
cypherpunk.

I have seen a lot of complaints about "too much noise".  That is
not a problem.  The problem is too little signal.  I can extract
the signal - unless it isn't there.

I propose that we spend the money on food for the monthly meeting.

Peter Hendrickson
ph@netcom.com

At 1:04 PM -0800 12/31/96, Peter Hendrickson wrote:
>At 11:47 AM 12/31/1996, Lucky Green wrote:
>>At 10:25 AM 12/31/96 -0800, Peter Hendrickson wrote:
>>> The easiest and fastest solution is to set up toad.com to charge a
>>> dollar per message.  (Proceeds to be spent by John Gilmore as he
>>> sees fit.)
>
>>> We can then leverage off the existing e-cash infrastructure which
>>> already provides blinding software for free on all major platforms.
>
>> I am not sure that this proposal would work. Some of the spammers on this
>> list are rather dedicated. They might gladly pay a dollar per message.
>
>Let's try it and see how it goes.  If it doesn't work, we can try
>a more complicated scheme.  (I volunteer to modify Majordomo to
>make this happen.  We could have this feature in the near future.)

"Let's try it and see how it goes" is often a dangerous step. It could kill
the list as we know it; exactly what fraction of current subscribers do you
think will arrange for digital cash accounts, will arrange their mailing
software to use this, will bother with PGP, etc.?

Now maybe this is a Good Thing, to drive out the slackers and those without
good tools integrating PGP into their mailers, etc., but maybe it is not a
Good Thing .

It seems to me that one should not lightly just say "Let's try it and see
what happens!"

>I have seen a lot of complaints about "too much noise".  That is
>not a problem.  The problem is too little signal.  I can extract
>the signal - unless it isn't there.

My sentiments exactly. But I fail to see how collecting a dollar per post,
or whatever the fee is ultimately set at, increases the number of good
posts (not the percentage, the S/N, the _number_, which is what we both
agree is the important thing).

Explanation?

--Tim May


Just say "No" to "Big Brother Inside"
We got computers, we're tapping phone lines, I know that that ain't allowed.
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
tcmay@got.net  408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Higher Power: 2^1398269     | black markets, collapse of governments.
"National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."