can Sun Tzu be a cypherpunks?

Quotations from the Art Of War by Sun Tzu

A Military operation involves deception. Even though you are competent,
appear to be incompetent. Though effective, appear to be ineffective.

Draw them in with the prospect of gain, take them  by confusion.

Use humility to make them haughty. Tire them by flight. Cause division
among them. Attack when they are  unprepared, make your move when they
do not expect it.

The formation and procedure used by the military should not be divulged
beforehand.

Comment: He seems to be advocating security through obscurity here.

The one who figures on victory at headquarters before even doing battle
is the one who has the most strategic factors on his side. The one who
figures on inability  to prevail at headquarters before doing battle is
the  one who has the least strategic factors on his side. The one with
many strategic factors in his favor wins, the one with few strategic
factors in his favor loses--how much more so for the one with no
strategic factors in his favor. Observing the matter this way, I can see
who will win and who will lose.

The superior militarist strikes while schemes are being laid. The next
best is to attack alliances. The next best is to attack the army.

Invincibility is in oneself, vulnerability is in the opponent.

Therefore skilled warriors are able to be invincible, but they cannot
cause opponents to be vulnerable.

That is why it is said that victory can be discerned but not
manufactured.

Invincibility is a matter of defense, vulnerability is a matter of
attack.

Therefore the victories of good warriors are not noted for cleverness or
bravery. Therefore their victories in battle  are not flukes. Their
victories are not flukes because they position themselves where they
will surely win, prevailing over those who have already lost.

So it is that good warriors take their stand on ground where they cannot
lose, and do not overlook conditions  that make an opponent prone to
defeat.

Therefore a victorious army first wins and then seeks battle; a
defeated army first battles and then seeks  victory.

Those who use arms well cultivate the Way and keep the  rules. Thus they
can govern in such a way as to prevail over the corrupt.

Comment: Would it not be wonderful if we could prevail over the corrupt?

Making the armies able to take on opponents without being  defeated is a
matter of unorthodox and orthodox methods.

Therefore those skilled at the unorthodox are infinite as heaven and
earth, inexhaustible as the great rivers. When they come to an end, they
begin again, like the  days and months; they die and are reborn, like
the four seasons.

The unorthodox and the orthodox give rise to each other, like a
beginningless circle--who could exhaust them?

Disorder arises from order, cowardice arises from courage, weakness
arises from strength.

Therefore those who skillfully move opponents make  formations that the
opponents are sure to follow, give what opponents are sure to take. They
move opponents with the prospect of gain, waiting for them in ambush.

To unfailingly take what you attack, attack where  there is no defense.
For unfailingly secure  defense, defend where there is no attack.

So in the case of those who are skilled in attack, their opponents do
not know where to defend. In the case of those skilled in defense, their
opponents do not know where to attack.

Be extremely subtle, even to the point of formlessness. Be extremely
mysterious, even to the point of soundlessness. Thereby you can be the
director of the opponent's fate.

Comment: Are cypherpunks capable of this?

To advance irresistibly, push through their gaps, to retreat elusively,
outspeed them.

Induce them to adopt specific formations, in order to  know the ground
of death and life.

Comment: Sounds like known plaintext attack to me.

Therefore the consummation of forming an army is to arrive at
formlessness. When you have no form, undercover espionage cannot find
out anything, intelligence cannot form a strategy.

Comment: Sun Tzu seems to being saying that if your cipher is properly
designed, you need not rely on security through obscurity.

Victory over multitudes by means of formation is unknowable to the
multitudes. Everyone knows the form by which I am victorious, but no one
knows the form by which  I ensure victory.

Military formation is like water--the form of water is to  avoid the
high and go to the low, the form of a military  force is to avoid the
full and attack the empty; the flow  of water is determined by the
earth, the victory of a military force is determined by the opponent.

So a military force has not constant formation, water has no constant
shape;the ability to gain victory by changing and adapting according to
the opponent is called genius.

Foreknowledge cannot be gotten from ghosts and spirits, cannot be had by
analogy, cannot be found out by  calculation. It must be obtained from
people, people know the conditions of the enemy.
   There are five kinds of spy: The local spy, the inside spy, the
reverse spy, the dead spy, and the living spy. When the five kinds of
spies are all active,  no one knows their routes--this is called 
organizational genius, and is valuable to the leadership.
    Local spies are hired from among the people of a locality; Inside
spies are hired from among enemy  officials. Reverse spies are hired
from enemy spies. Dead spies transmit false intelligence to enemy spies.
Living spies come back to report.

Question: Can cypherpunks use these methods to defeat those
who would take our freedom?

nobody@nowhere.com wrote:

> Question: Can cypherpunks use these methods to defeat those
> who would take our freedom?

WARNING! "The Xenix Chainsaw Massacre" Is A Very Dangerous Document
-------------------------------------------------------------------
	
  It is reputed among many of the top minds in the Computer Industry 
to be a very real, and revealing, documentary of some of the horrors 
of the Industry which are sometimes rumored, but seldom exposed.  
But be warned-they say it in private, not in public.
  Though management at the major Corporations in the Industry brush 
aside the document as the mad ramblings of an unstable, failed 
business executive, the fact remains that there are more and more 
people coming forward who claim to have suffered demotions or loss 
of employment after deliberately or inadvertently revealing their 
support of the document's claims and it's authenticity.

  If you choose to read this manuscript, do not speak of it in casual
conversation at your place of employment, or around strangers in 
any business or social environment.  Though it is almost impossible 
to document cases of reprisal of this nature, the increasing numbers 
of ex-employees of major Corporations in the Computer Industry 
making these claims, and the devastating consequences they allege 
to their professional and private lives, make it wise to be discreet 
in expressing any opinion, or even knowledge, of this document.
  If you choose to share this document with others, it would be wise 
to do so discreetly, even anonymously, should you be unsure of the 
reliability and discretion of whomever you choose to share this 
knowledge with.

  Though I personally lean toward viewing the manuscript as authentic, 
my exhaustive research into it's origin has always come to a dead-end, 
even among the principals involved.
  C.J. Parker, former President of Pearl Harbor Computers, Inc., denied
emphatically, in a face-to-face encounter with  anything whatsoever to 
do with the document.  When I pressed him with questions regarding 
the hasty demise of his business and the unraveling of his personal 
life after the public circulation of "The Xenix Chainsaw Massacre" 
began, he became very agitated and distraught, bordering on violence, 
and the interview was abruptly terminated.
  Dr. William M. Denney, one of the few principals in the manuscript 
referred to directly, was reluctant to be interviewed, but eventually 
made a few comments which I found to be very revealing.  Dr. Denney, 
Vice-President of Basis, Inc. in Emmeryville, Ca., consistently rated 
as one of the top ten Unix Open Systems vendors in the world, said, 
"I deny any knowledge of or participation, in any way whatsoever, 
with anything connected to 'The Xenix Chainsaw Massacre', and it 
would be wise for others to do the same."
  I find this statement to be very cryptic and, at the same time, 
very revealing; very much in line with what would expect from one 
associated with the alleged underground computer society described 
in the manuscript.
  As for Mr. Torry Basford, a former employee of Bell Labs who was 
Mr. Parker's first mentor in the world of Unix and is rumored to be 
laboring in obscurity in a small community college somewhere in the 
southwestern U.S., Mr. Parker would only say, "The man has suffered 
enough, please leave him alone."

 Regardless of the origins or authenticity of the document, it is 
considered by many to be extremely unsettling, perhaps even 
dangerous, and one might be better served to avoid reading the 
manuscript, if for no other reason than simple peace of mind.

___________________________________

 If you would like a copy of the manuscript,
send me a private email indicating a  desire
to receive it.

Toto

nobody@nowhere.com wrote:
 
 > Therefore those who skillfully move opponents make  formations that
the
 > opponents are sure to follow, give what opponents are sure to take.
They
 > move opponents with the prospect of gain, waiting for them in ambush.
 
   Like skillfully moving the CypherPunks subscribers onto a different
 list than the one they subscribed to? Knowing that most subscribers
 would 'take' whatever was spoon-fed to them?
   I have the utmost respect for John's skill in manipulating the
 majority of CypherPunks subscribers into a pen from which they
 can leisurely munch on the fodder that Sandy throws over the fence
 to them. I am sure that they will grow 'fat' on the condensed
 crypto-food that is provided for them, especially since they
 will not have to move about in order to graze among all of the
 postings.
   But I am reminded of a Sunday-school teacher who told her class
 the story of the Prodigal Son, and afterwards asked one of the
 children, "Who was not happy to see the Prodigal Son return home?"
   He replied, "The fatted calf."
 
 Toto

nobody@nowhere.com wrote:
> Quotations from the Art Of War by Sun Tzu
> A Military operation involves deception. Even though you are competent,
> appear to be incompetent. Though effective, appear to be ineffective.
> Draw them in with the prospect of gain, take them  by confusion.
> Use humility to make them haughty. Tire them by flight. Cause division
> among them. Attack when they are  unprepared, make your move when they
> do not expect it.

The all-time master was Rudolph Wanderone (sp?), a.k.a.
Minnesota Fats.  There was an article on him that told how he
cleaned the pool champ in Atlantic City circa 1960.

In later years, he played Mosconi on TV several times, and had
quite a few people convinced he wasn't a very good player, at
least "not as good as" Mosconi.  The movie Color Of Money shows
what this meant, and just how unprepared the public is to believe
that someone like Fats could really be the best.  Kinda like
Tom Wolfe and the pirates thing.