RE: Fighting the cybercensor

From:	Dr.Dimitri Vulis

However U.S.G. is able to say that people of Iraq or Lybia or Cuba should
not be permitted on the 'net. It also bombs Iraq and murders their 
civilians
in retaliation for something their governments supposedly did.
................................................................


The U.S.G. has many more resources than most of us to do these things, 
including equipment, cooperative troops, money, and recognition from other 
governments.   If other nations disagree with the U.S.G. they have the 
resources to discuss, bargain, negotiate, criticize, form alliances, take 
their chances and retaliate, etc.

These things are done on a level not accessible to the most of us.  All 
that we individuals have are access to telephone lines, computers, and 
modems.   Yet even as we speak the world is being "wired" with cables to 
further make this singular communication possible and open up avenues to 
non-government organized activities:   international corporations are se  
tting up offices, services, and correspondence wherever in the world they 
can find markets.   All this is happening even while the governments are 
complaining to each other about what their citizens are posting (tch, tch) 
and threatening to deprive each other of that privilege.

While governments and their True Believer citizens are dealing with each 
other on one level, the rest of the world is reorganizing itself into a 
different order of living and doing business.   They are sharing ideas and 
examining their concepts and beliefs, they are conducting a lot of their 
disagreements on the net (instead of physically against each other on the 
ground), opening up to a broader view of relationships between individuals, 
or to governments, or to religions, sexuality, etc.

The situation hasn't completely changed yet,  but it is in process.

    ..
Blanc

Toto wrote:
> Dale Thorn wrote:
> > How does one country get on top and terrorize the whole world?  By
> > following Tom Wolfe's intimation concerning the pirates: "The people
> > on the East coast were constantly victimized because they couldn't
> > comprehend just how vicious and ruthless the pirates really were"
> > (quote approximate).

> Dale,
>   When I read posts like this, I wonder how any rationally thinking
> person can possibly believe that socio/politico concerns have no
> place in the discussion of crypto.
>   It is my belief that many of the more atrocious acts being performed
> against the citizens by various governments are made possible by the
> fact that there are so few people who recognize a 'pirate' when they
> see one.
>   While I appreciate that there are those who may be furthering the
> cause of crypto, privacy and freedom through official channels, the
> controlled media, and such, there needs to be a forum in which
> people are free to use what they consider to be the 'correct'
> terminology to refer to those who have usurped democracy in order
> to control the citizens for their own personal profit.
>   i.e. 'Pirates'

When I recall my growing up years and the political/social arguments
I participated in, I can hardly believe the things I've learned since,
esp. things like government agencies sharing asset forfeitures as a
means of funding further seizures (kind of snowballs, if you know
what I mean).  Check out H.R. 3355 of late 1993, which authorizes
Janet Reno to personally treaty up with the local cops in every U.S.
city of 100,000 pop. or more, i.e., most of the U.S. population,
and virtually all of the "crime".

There was a previous post today, perhaps yours, which made the point
that while erstwhile freedom fighters are trying to put out one fire
or another, the govt. boys are lighting dozens more.  I guess that
means we'll have to pony up a lot more tax money to pay those guys.
Whoops!  I forgot - they can self-fund now with the asset seizures.

blanc <blancw@cnw.com> writes:

> From:	Dr.Dimitri Vulis
>
> However U.S.G. is able to say that people of Iraq or Lybia or Cuba should
> not be permitted on the 'net. It also bombs Iraq and murders their
> civilians
> in retaliation for something their governments supposedly did.
> ................................................................
>
> The U.S.G. has many more resources than most of us to do these things,
> including equipment, cooperative troops, money, and recognition from other
> governments.   If other nations disagree with the U.S.G. they have the
> resources to discuss, bargain, negotiate, criticize, form alliances, take
> their chances and retaliate, etc.
>
> These things are done on a level not accessible to the most of us.  All
> that we individuals have are access to telephone lines, computers, and
> modems.   Yet even as we speak the world is being "wired" with cables to
> further make this singular communication possible and open up avenues to
> non-government organized activities:   international corporations are se
> tting up offices, services, and correspondence wherever in the world they
> can find markets.   All this is happening even while the governments are
> complaining to each other about what their citizens are posting (tch, tch)
> and threatening to deprive each other of that privilege.
>
> While governments and their True Believer citizens are dealing with each
> other on one level, the rest of the world is reorganizing itself into a
> different order of living and doing business.   They are sharing ideas and
> examining their concepts and beliefs, they are conducting a lot of their
> disagreements on the net (instead of physically against each other on the
> ground), opening up to a broader view of relationships between individuals,
> or to governments, or to religions, sexuality, etc.

And "cypher punks" bend over for a NSA stooge and allow U.S.G. to
further curtail free speech.

---

Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM
Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps

blanc wrote:
> From:   Dr.Dimitri Vulis
> However U.S.G. is able to say that people of Iraq or Lybia or Cuba should
> not be permitted on the 'net. It also bombs Iraq and murders their
> civilians
> in retaliation for something their governments supposedly did.

> The U.S.G. has many more resources than most of us to do these things,
> including equipment, cooperative troops, money, and recognition from other
> governments.   If other nations disagree with the U.S.G. they have the
> resources to discuss, bargain, negotiate, criticize, form alliances, take
> their chances and retaliate, etc.

I wish this were true, at least of nations which would be friendly
to someone like me (white, Western, etc.).  A bully on a school
playground can always be knocked down, no matter how big or how
vicious he is.  Sadly, the U.S. bully cannot be knocked down.  Bad
enough you get nuclear, chemical, and/or biological stuff waved at
you - if you get into a hot war like Desert Storm, your country is
carpet-bombed with fleets of B-52's until it is thoroughly debilitated.

How does one country get on top and terrorize the whole world?  By
following Tom Wolfe's intimation concerning the pirates: "The people
on the East coast were constantly victimized because they couldn't
comprehend just how vicious and ruthless the pirates really were"
(quote approximate).

People who read this might argue that the "true power" is international
now, and not confined to the USA.  I say it doesn't matter which end
you look at it from, the "true power" has been concentrating and
centralizing itself for some years now, and you can use any nation-label
you like.

Dale Thorn wrote:
 
> How does one country get on top and terrorize the whole world?  By
> following Tom Wolfe's intimation concerning the pirates: "The people
> on the East coast were constantly victimized because they couldn't
> comprehend just how vicious and ruthless the pirates really were"
> (quote approximate).

Dale,
  When I read posts like this, I wonder how any rationally thinking
person can possibly believe that socio/politico concerns have no
place in the discussion of crypto.
  It is my belief that many of the more atrocious acts being performed
against the citizens by various governments are made possible by the
fact that there are so few people who recognize a 'pirate' when they
see one.
  While I appreciate that there are those who may be furthering the
cause of crypto, privacy and freedom through official channels, the
controlled media, and such, there needs to be a forum in which 
people are free to use what they consider to be the 'correct'
terminology to refer to those who have usurped democracy in order
to control the citizens for their own personal profit.
  i.e. 'Pirates'

Toto

Toto <toto@sk.sympatico.ca> writes:

> Dale Thorn wrote:
>
> > How does one country get on top and terrorize the whole world?  By
> > following Tom Wolfe's intimation concerning the pirates: "The people
> > on the East coast were constantly victimized because they couldn't
> > comprehend just how vicious and ruthless the pirates really were"
> > (quote approximate).
>
> Dale,
>   When I read posts like this, I wonder how any rationally thinking
> person can possibly believe that socio/politico concerns have no
> place in the discussion of crypto.
>   It is my belief that many of the more atrocious acts being performed
> against the citizens by various governments are made possible by the
> fact that there are so few people who recognize a 'pirate' when they
> see one.
>   While I appreciate that there are those who may be furthering the
> cause of crypto, privacy and freedom through official channels, the
> controlled media, and such, there needs to be a forum in which
> people are free to use what they consider to be the 'correct'
> terminology to refer to those who have usurped democracy in order
> to control the citizens for their own personal profit.
>   i.e. 'Pirates'

Right now, you can still say anything you like in "cypherpunks-unedited".
Anyone subscribed to the moderated cypherpunks list is free to resubscribe.
If the masses of lurkers choose not to do it, it's their loss, and not
your or my responsibility.

---

Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM
Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps