Re: Moderation experiment almost over; "put up or shut up"

Igor Chudov @ home wrote:
> Dave Hayes wrote:
> > Ok. I'll "put up".
> > If the cypherpunks will have me, -I'll- run the cypherpunks
> > list. Those that know me know that I will *not* censor, moderate, or
> > otherwise alter the content (other than the stuff majordomo does with
> > "resend") of any messages to the list.

> I think that it is a great idea. If you want to contribute to the
> effort to keep the list, this is great. You could join the network of
> other cypherpunks mailing lists.
> There is a small list for discussing these networking issues,
> cypherpunks-hosts@algebra.com. It is not for crypto-discussions per
> se, but rather for discussing how we proceed with these lists.

If I understood the last several hundred messages correctly, they have
tried to make the point that the cypherpunks mailing list (unedited)
was more ideal than a newsgroup.  If this is what Dave is offering,
I'm surprised if more people don't jump on it.  Then again, they
took their good ol' time jumping onto cypherpunks-unedited.

Dale Thorn allegedly said:
> 
[...]
> 
> If I understood the last several hundred messages correctly, they have
> tried to make the point that the cypherpunks mailing list (unedited)
> was more ideal than a newsgroup.  If this is what Dave is offering,
> I'm surprised if more people don't jump on it.  Then again, they
> took their good ol' time jumping onto cypherpunks-unedited.

Dave is offering a single mailing list, which, while I am sure Dave is
a great person, still represents a single point of control and a
single point of failure.  A distributed mailing list has a potential
for being much more robust, and for supporting a wide range of
viewpoints.  Furthermore a distributed mailing list is an interesting
minor technical problem, and a good solution could have wide
applicability.

So I think that people would like to get the distributed list going...

-- 
Kent Crispin				"No reason to get excited",
kent@songbird.com,kc@llnl.gov		the thief he kindly spoke...
PGP fingerprint:   5A 16 DA 04 31 33 40 1E  87 DA 29 02 97 A3 46 2F

Kent Crispin wrote:
> Dale Thorn allegedly said:
> > If I understood the last several hundred messages correctly, they have
> > tried to make the point that the cypherpunks mailing list (unedited)
> > was more ideal than a newsgroup.  If this is what Dave is offering,
> > I'm surprised if more people don't jump on it.  Then again, they
> > took their good ol' time jumping onto cypherpunks-unedited.

> Dave is offering a single mailing list, which, while I am sure Dave is
> a great person, still represents a single point of control and a
> single point of failure.  A distributed mailing list has a potential
> for being much more robust, and for supporting a wide range of
> viewpoints.  Furthermore a distributed mailing list is an interesting
> minor technical problem, and a good solution could have wide
> applicability.
> So I think that people would like to get the distributed list going...

I hope this doesn't duplicate the earlier message - if someone were
tracking all this activity and kept the lists informed about what
was available where - and particularly if the downloading could be
automatic as in the subscription lists - that would be ideal.

I wanted to spend some time on alt.cypherpunks, but I haven't got
thru the subscription mail for the last few days yet.  If there's
a scheme that works better than just ad-hoc looking, I'd sure like
to know.

On Sat, 15 Feb 1997, Dale Thorn wrote:

> Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 18:21:07 -0800
> From: Dale Thorn <dthorn@gte.net>
> Reply-To: freedom-knights@jetcafe.org
> To: freedom-knights@jetcafe.org
> Cc: ichudov@algebra.com, dave@kachina.jetcafe.org, cypherpunks@toad.com
> Subject: Re: Moderation experiment almost over; "put up or shut up"
> 
> Kent Crispin wrote:
> > Dale Thorn allegedly said:
> > > If I understood the last several hundred messages correctly, they have
> > > tried to make the point that the cypherpunks mailing list (unedited)
> > > was more ideal than a newsgroup.  If this is what Dave is offering,
> > > I'm surprised if more people don't jump on it.  Then again, they
> > > took their good ol' time jumping onto cypherpunks-unedited.
> 
> > Dave is offering a single mailing list, which, while I am sure Dave is
> > a great person, still represents a single point of control and a
> > single point of failure.  A distributed mailing list has a potential
> > for being much more robust, and for supporting a wide range of
> > viewpoints.  Furthermore a distributed mailing list is an interesting
> > minor technical problem, and a good solution could have wide
> > applicability.
> > So I think that people would like to get the distributed list going...
> 
> I hope this doesn't duplicate the earlier message - if someone were
> tracking all this activity and kept the lists informed about what
> was available where - and particularly if the downloading could be
> automatic as in the subscription lists - that would be ideal.
> 
> I wanted to spend some time on alt.cypherpunks, but I haven't got
> thru the subscription mail for the last few days yet.  If there's
> a scheme that works better than just ad-hoc looking, I'd sure like
> to know.
> 

You mean there is an alt.cypherpunks mailing list?
That is not on my server.

I have mail.cypherpunks though, and I thought that was
the usenet newsgroup for cypherpunks.

let's see what dejanews says about this one.

How about every posting to alt.underground for the time being,
until we get this matter settled?

On Sat, 15 Feb 1997, Kent Crispin wrote:

> Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 15:55:34 -0800 (PST)
> From: Kent Crispin <kent@songbird.com>
> Reply-To: freedom-knights@jetcafe.org
> To: Dale Thorn <dthorn@gte.net>
> Cc: ichudov@algebra.com, dave@kachina.jetcafe.org,
>     freedom-knights@jetcafe.org, cypherpunks@toad.com
> Subject: Re: Moderation experiment almost over; "put up or shut up"
> 
> Dale Thorn allegedly said:
> > 
> [...]
> > 
> > If I understood the last several hundred messages correctly, they have
> > tried to make the point that the cypherpunks mailing list (unedited)
> > was more ideal than a newsgroup.  If this is what Dave is offering,
> > I'm surprised if more people don't jump on it.  Then again, they
> > took their good ol' time jumping onto cypherpunks-unedited.
> 
> Dave is offering a single mailing list, which, while I am sure Dave is
> a great person, still represents a single point of control and a
> single point of failure.  A distributed mailing list has a potential
> for being much more robust, and for supporting a wide range of
> viewpoints.  Furthermore a distributed mailing list is an interesting
> minor technical problem, and a good solution could have wide
> applicability.
> 
> So I think that people would like to get the distributed list going...
> 

What is it going to do then, all run on the same majordomo?

> -- 
> Kent Crispin				"No reason to get excited",
> kent@songbird.com,kc@llnl.gov		the thief he kindly spoke...
> PGP fingerprint:   5A 16 DA 04 31 33 40 1E  87 DA 29 02 97 A3 46 2F

Just make sure it all works on Linux.  

I think a -digest- would be in order, and if everybody uses the same
program, you can make sure there are no duplicates.

I will put up the address for Vulis to run.  Now the cypherpunks
all support the net.scum web-page, right?