RE: Cyphernomicon by Tim May

From:	Toto

  I am not speaking of the sheep-mentality in regard to moderation or
any other single issue on the list. I am speaking of the tendency of
many list-members to fall into common ruts of thought wherein the
comments and opinions of others are auto-files as this-or-that,
and interpreted in that light, no matter what the actual content
of their messages.
................................................

Hm, well, what's an anarchist to do about other people's psychological 
makeup?

=

 I regard Igor and yourself, and a number of others, in the same
light. I'm reluctant to bend over and drop my pants, waiting for
you to kiss my butt, because I realize that I am just as likely
to feel the sting of your toe-nailed boots instead of soft lips.
..........................................

Hm, well, I'm not in the custom of doing either of those things, but thanks 
for the compliment!

=

  But, under the New List Order, any strong opinion risks being
thrown in the crapper as a 'flame'.
...............................................

Not that I'm condoning centralized management, but I bet I could flame 
anyone pretty good yet by-pass the moderator.  It's all in the style, you 
know.   Some people are very delicate about what offends them - I know I 
could get on some particular people's nerves any day without trying.   An 
opportunist can take advantage of another's infirmity by being perfectly 
polite while yet excruciatingly annoying.
=

 Yes, but there are always members to whom these treatises and orientation 
of thought are 'new', and people only notice the repetiveness when they 
are, indeed, following these posts, which means that they must be getting 
some value out of them.
............................................

Oh, I wasn't condemning Tim's posts as being repetitive and boring - it's 
commendable that he would write about the same ideas in fresh new ways, for 
the benefit of the newbies and the entertainment of the oldies.

But not everyone is as interested & willing (or have the time) to 
re-iterate this way, and  with only one or a few "holding up the ship", so 
to speak, it leaves a lot of room for wayless bickering degenerating into 
unproductive ad hominems - ad absurdum, ad nauseam.

You, know, Toto, I heard that there's a vacancy in the Cypherpunk Division 
of History & Philosophy ....

    ..
Blanc

blanc wrote:
> From:   Toto
> Hm, well, what's an anarchist to do about other people's psychological
> makeup?

  Hold up a mirror. 

> Not that I'm condoning centralized management, but I bet I could flame
> anyone pretty good yet by-pass the moderator.  It's all in the style, you
> know.   Some people are very delicate about what offends them - I know I
> could get on some particular people's nerves any day without trying.   An
> opportunist can take advantage of another's infirmity by being perfectly
> polite while yet excruciatingly annoying.

  What constitutes a 'flame' seems to depend heavily on whose mouth it
comes out of. Jim Choate called me a schizophrenic, and it seemed to
be acceptable enough to make the censored list. He tends to call 
people "Bessie", basically saying they are a Cow, and that also
seems acceptable.
  Personally, I could care less when people want to play footsie-games
with flaming, but I think it points out the ludicrousness of having
a moderator limiting people to 'childish' insults.
  I prefer someone screaming at me what a cocksucker I am.

 Ray Hettinga forwards these long, literate missives advertising
this-or-that million dollar a plate conferences, but when he chose
to insult me with his own words, the result was an immature 
blathering which showed questionable literary skills.

> Oh, I wasn't condemning Tim's posts as being repetitive and boring - it's
> commendable that he would write about the same ideas in fresh new ways, for
> the benefit of the newbies and the entertainment of the oldies.
 
> But not everyone is as interested & willing (or have the time) to
> re-iterate this way, and  with only one or a few "holding up the ship", so
> to speak, it leaves a lot of room for wayless bickering degenerating into
> unproductive ad hominems - ad absurdum, ad nauseam.

  There are some good socio/politico posts by a variety of list members
who are highly knowlegeable about a range of topics surrounding crypto,
but they tend to come sporadically.
  I suppose that this is because they actually have real lives.

> You, know, Toto, I heard that there's a vacancy in the Cypherpunk Division
> of History & Philosophy ....

  I suppose that Sandy might nominate me, just for the pleasure of 
sitting back and enjoying the flood of, "A Vote of FUCK OFF for Toto"
postings.
  It would be nice, however, to try to twist the rest of the list
around to my own world-view. It gets lonely here in the 'rubber room'
at the Home, and I could use some company.

Toto