"cypherpunks is dead..."

"...long live cypherpunks?"

"So long, and thanks for all the fish?"


But, seriously, folks...

Lucky Green echoed many of my own thoughts when he talked about all the
things being on this list has meant to him. Like Lucky, there is a
rediculously huge list of things that this list has taught me over the
almost three (wow..) years or so that I've been here.

Thanks to all of you here, I have had nothing short of a Copernican
transformation in my perception of the universe, and it completely changed
what I wanted to do with the rest of my life. From the very first time I
started reading this list and applying what I learned here to what I
already knew, right then, for the first time in a *very* long time, I knew
*exactly* how some very important pieces of the world actually worked, and
more important, why they were going to change.  I now *know* where the
world is going to go. Maybe not when, of course, but certainly where and
how. :-) (Old stock picker's joke: "I can tell you what. I can tell you
when. I can't tell you both. If I did, I wouldn't tell *you*.")


Anyway, I've learned all these things from many cypherpunks, some still
here, and a lot who've left. I expect that, as we move into the next phase
of this "group", we'll continue to teach ourselves much more about the
world and strong cryptography's effect on it. But, nothing will compare to
the feeling we'll get when we remember the time we've spent here at Toad
Hall. We have John Gilmore to thank for the "lodgings", of course, and,
certainly, for his encouragement and support.  And, obviously, his
tolerance, which finally sagged and broke under the weight of both his
expectations and those of our own.

We also have to thank Tim May for his um, ideological, presence on this
list from since before it existed, :-), and, or course, for his current
"leadership", both moral and political. (Of course, I can say all the next
few wierd and gushy things about him without fear of refutation on his
part, 'cause, in his wisdom, I'm still in his killfile ;-)) It was Tim who
was our compass. It was Tim who came down from the mountain and stopped us
from worshiping the fatted calf of censorship, and who is now leading us
into the promised land of unfettered discourse, both on usenet and on the
new cypherpunk server network. Since Tim paper-trained most of us here
(myself included, though some may debate how well he succeeded :-)), that
is, how to behave on this list, and, most important, how to imagine what a
world of strong crytography on ubiquitous networks would look like, I now
find his "leading" us out onto the net, and away from Sinai, most
symmetrical indeed. :-).


And so, in this last 24 hours or so on toad.com, I want to thank *both* Tim
and John. But, also, I personally want to thank the "money-punks". People
like Eric Hughes, and Perry Metzger, and Ian Goldberg, and Hal Finney, and
Lucky Green, and Duncan Frissell, and Black Unicorn, and many, many other
people, who have helped me work through, on this list, or in private
e-mail, or, occasionally, in person, all of the stuff they know, and the
stuff I have figured out myself. All about e$, about digital bearer
certificate markets, about microintermediation. All the things which
completely occupy almost all my waking thoughts these days.


Because of this list's effect on my life, I have been motivated to start
the Digital Commerce Society of Boston, to evangelize financial
cryptography to any audience who would listen to me, to create a web site
dedicated to e$, to create a group of e$ lists with some 300 total
subscribers, to work with Vinnie Moscaritolo to create both the Mac-Crypto
lists and conferences, to work with Vince Cate and Ray Hirschfeld to create
the world's first peer-reviewed conference on financial cryptography, and
with Vince and Ian Goldberg to create the world's first intensive financial
cryptography bootcamp (which is going on as I write this). To create, with
Vinnie, and Rachel Wilmer, and Anthony Templer, and Bob Antia, and Rodney
Thayer, the next generation of the e$ website and mailing lists.

Next week, I go to FC97 in Anguilla because of the things I've learned on
this list. In the middle of March, I go to Cupertino to help Vinnie with
Mac-Crypto 2.0, because of the things I've learned on this list. I've been
invited to speak all over the world (and New Hampshire, too :-)) to talk
about this stuff. I get quoted in the newspapers. I write magazine op-ed
pieces. It has even earned me a buck or two. :-).

In short, I owe everything I do of any consequence these days to my
participation on this list, and, for that, I'm profoundly grateful to all
of you for the privelege of being here: to listen, to learn, and,
occasionally, to pay back all the stuff I've learned with a thing or two
that I've worked out myself.


Like that creosote bush I talked about before, cypherpunks is not going to
die just because the address "cypherpunks@toad.com" ceases to exist. There
are already 3rd-order cypherpunks lists out there. 3rd generation copies of
the same "memetic" material. cypherpunks will *never* die, short of a
cybernetic Chixalub event of some kind, and, frankly, even then. The
internet sees censorship as damage and routes around it.


So. In a very real sense, today on cypherpunks is like any other day in the
life of a creosote bush. It's a big desert, folks. We're the only ones who
know how to live out here. The whole damn desert, as far as the eye can
see, is ours to move into.

All we have to do is keep filling in the empty spots...


Cheers,
Bob Hettinga



-----------------
Robert Hettinga (rah@shipwright.com), Philodox
e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"Never attribute to conspiracy what can be
explained by stupidity." -- Jerry Pournelle
The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/rah/
FC97: Anguilla, anyone? http://www.ai/fc97/

At 3:37 PM -0500 2/19/97, Robert Hettinga wrote:

>We also have to thank Tim May for his um, ideological, presence on this
>list from since before it existed, :-), and, or course, for his current
>"leadership", both moral and political. (Of course, I can say all the next
>few wierd and gushy things about him without fear of refutation on his
>part, 'cause, in his wisdom, I'm still in his killfile ;-)) It was Tim who

No, Bob, I actually took you out of my filter file (Eudora's killfile) a
while back.

It is true that I don't like your style, your writing style, that is. Some
say I am overly sensitive to style issues...probably so. I find most modern
cyber-journalism unreadable, with the hipper-than-thou "street cred" lingo
and the obfuscatory purple prose.

I find reading the straight-shooting words of even my ideological opponents
(or opponents in some areas) far easier than reading the neo-journalistic
hype some of my ideological fellow-travellers use.

Nothing personal.

>was our compass. It was Tim who came down from the mountain and stopped us
>from worshiping the fatted calf of censorship, and who is now leading us
>into the promised land of unfettered discourse, both on usenet and on the
>new cypherpunk server network. Since Tim paper-trained most of us here
>(myself included, though some may debate how well he succeeded :-)), that
>is, how to behave on this list, and, most important, how to imagine what a
>world of strong crytography on ubiquitous networks would look like, I now
>find his "leading" us out onto the net, and away from Sinai, most
>symmetrical indeed. :-).

Well, I guess I have to say "Indeed." (Though I don't claim to be leading
anyone, especially not off the list. After several weeks of saying nothing,
I outlined my reasons for disliking the censorship move...reasons that had
also been made by many other folks. Anyway, Adam Back's summary of events
is pretty close to the mark.)

The vision of where the world is headed, noted by Bob, has been clear to
many of us for many years. When I first read about public key systems,
circa 1977, I got an inkling. When I read Chaum's paper on untraceable
digital cash, circa 1986, things got clearer. And when I evaluated the
business plan of Phil Salin for his company, American Information Exchange,
in 1987, everything fell into place. My role with him was to suggest how
cryptographic protocols, including digital cash, would open up information
markets. His company eventually got some funding, but failed. This company
was several years too early, as it presaged many aspects of the Web (and,
not coincidentally, its "sister company" was Xanadu, which even more
clearly presaged the Web--indeed, Ted Nelson was the godfather of the Web.

Anyway, by mid-1988, I wrote and distributed "the Crypto Anarchist
Manifesto," which, to my surprise and satisfaction, basically anticipated
all of the things now being done on Cypherpunks and elsewhere (anonymous
remailers, message pools, steganography, BlackNet types of markets,
ubiquitous crypto, etc.). The missing piece, digital cash, is a hard nut to
crack...sure, it exists (Mark Twain Bank, DigiCash, etc.), but it's hard to
get robust versions deployed and used. (Getting PGP integrated into mailers
is stil bogged down, for reasons I have to believe have to do with
pressures from somewhere, else why would e-mail packages not make PGP
support painless?)

I agree with Bob and others that the Cypherpunks are in no danger of dying
out. Things are just about to get a lot more interesting.

--Tim May





Just say "No" to "Big Brother Inside"
We got computers, we're tapping phone lines, I know that that ain't allowed.
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
tcmay@got.net  408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Higher Power: 2^1398269     | black markets, collapse of governments.
"National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

 A million monkeys operating under the pseudonym 
 "Tim May <tcmay@got.net>" typed:
>
> (Getting PGP integrated into mailers
> is stil bogged down, for reasons I have to believe have to do with
> pressures from somewhere, else why would e-mail packages not make PGP
> support painless?)


Because PGP's user interface is yucky and its programmer
interface is even worse.


Amazing how people don't realize how much certain important 
things depend on such a (deceptively) simple concept as having
a nice user interface and a nice programmer interface.  In 
contradiction of certain cypherpunk urban legends, I suspect
that such pedestrian details are far, far more important to 
the course of history than the clumsy and feckless 
machinations of government agencies.


But for the good news, see the quote from Jim Bidzos in my
".plan".


Regards,

Zooko, Journeyman Interface Designer

NOT speaking for any organizations or persons whose names 
might appear in the headers of this message, or who might 
occasionally toss me some spare change in return for my 
brilliant software design work.

PGP sig follows




-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: 2.6.2i
Comment: Auto-signed under Unix with 'BAP' Easy-PGP v1.1b2

iQB1AwUBMwxxPkjbHy8sKZitAQFkwwL+Pmpv70F4mN+G58gnZj0a8nH6omppzucN
CxMSw2iFc/rBcCQGoNO1Bx42TEShypN4HyBqrR49NEkJhihZ4dSfQB2FGsTZyFE0
P9X2/Oy10AwqC9nu90n/Ct5Z+63wFB6P
=CCQx
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

Bryce wrote:
> 
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> 
>  A million monkeys operating under the pseudonym
>  "Tim May <tcmay@got.net>" typed:
> >
> > (Getting PGP integrated into mailers
> > is stil bogged down, for reasons I have to believe have to do with
> > pressures from somewhere, else why would e-mail packages not make PGP
> > support painless?)
> 
> Because PGP's user interface is yucky and its programmer
> interface is even worse.
> 
> Amazing how people don't realize how much certain important
> things depend on such a (deceptively) simple concept as having
> a nice user interface and a nice programmer interface.  In
> contradiction of certain cypherpunk urban legends, I suspect
> that such pedestrian details are far, far more important to
> the course of history than the clumsy and feckless
> machinations of government agencies.
> 
> But for the good news, see the quote from Jim Bidzos in my
> ".plan".
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Zooko, Journeyman Interface Designer
> 
> NOT speaking for any organizations or persons whose names
> might appear in the headers of this message, or who might
> occasionally toss me some spare change in return for my
> brilliant software design work.
> 
> PGP sig follows

check www.querisoft.com for 'SecureFile'. the attachment here explains
the features of SecureFile.

your comments / suggestions are most welcome.

thanx.
anand....
-- 
                                             \|||/
                                            ( O-O )
 *----------------*-----------*--------.ooo0--(_)-0ooo.----------*
  Anand Abhyankar                                               
  Querisoft Systems Pvt. Ltd.   Email       : anand@querisoft.com 
  810, Sindh Society, Aundh,    Phone (Off) : 91-212-385925       
  Pune - 411 007. INDIA               (Res) : 91-212-351023
                                          .oooO         
                			  (   )   Oooo.
 *----------------*-----------*------------\ (----(   )----------*
                                            \_)    ) /
                                                  (_/