Jackboots in Canada

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AP 3/21/97

Quebec

Spurred by a new outbreak of bombings, the Canadian government agreed
Thursday to toughen laws to help Quebec stamp out a war between motorcycle
gangs that has killed more than 30 people.

[snip]

...Hell's Angels and Rock Machine...have been battling for control of the
illegal drug trade in Canada.

Canadian justice minister, Allan Rock, said the measures would include
broadening laws on search warrants, electronic eavesdropping and bail
conditions for arrested gang members.  
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owner-cypherpunks@sirius.infonex.com writes:
> AP 3/21/97
> 
> Quebec
> 
> Spurred by a new outbreak of bombings, the Canadian government agreed
> Thursday to toughen laws to help Quebec stamp out a war between motorcycle
> gangs that has killed more than 30 people.
> 
> [snip]
> 
> ...Hell's Angels and Rock Machine...have been battling for control of the
> illegal drug trade in Canada.
> 
> Canadian justice minister, Allan Rock, said the measures would include
> broadening laws on search warrants, electronic eavesdropping and bail
> conditions for arrested gang members.


The alternative, proposed by some goverment person (governor?) in Quebec, was
to suspend "individual liberties" for bikers, making it possible to
pull one over at any time, search them, and if explosives are found
assume they're guilty until proven innocent. 

That last part just floored me, how could anyone be willing to throw
away rights like that?  At least here in the US they're not so
obvious about it- the cash (or cars or computers) are seized and
presumed guilty until proven innocent, and of course you can't mount a
defense if everything you own is seized and your bank accounts frozen, but
you're still presumed innocent.  It was that evil CASH that did it.

-- 
   Eric Murray  ericm@lne.com  Network security and encryption consulting.
PGP keyid:E03F65E5 fingerprint:50 B0 A2 4C 7D 86 FC 03  92 E8 AC E6 7E 27 29 AF

Eric said:
> owner-cypherpunks@sirius.infonex.com writes:
> > ...Hell's Angels and Rock Machine...have been battling for control of the
> > illegal drug trade in Canada.
> > Canadian justice minister, Allan Rock, said the measures would include
> > broadening laws on search warrants, electronic eavesdropping and bail
> > conditions for arrested gang members.
> The alternative, proposed by some goverment person (governor?) in Quebec, was
> to suspend "individual liberties" for bikers, making it possible to
> pull one over at any time, search them, and if explosives are found
> assume they're guilty until proven innocent. 
> That last part just floored me, how could anyone be willing to throw
> away rights like that?  At least here in the US they're not so

	It isn't their rights being thrown away, it is the rights of the 
evil bikers.

snow wrote:
>         It isn't their rights being thrown away, it is the rights of the
> evil bikers.

  You hit the nail on the head.
  The Bummerment always gains their ground by taking away 'other' 
people's rights, one by one, until they've taken them all away.
  As long as people only complain when their own rights are being
taken away, then the Bummerment will rule by a 'divide and conquer'
approach.
-- 
Toto
"The Xenix Chainsaw Massacre"
http://bureau42.base.org/public/xenix/xenbody.html

At 2:30 PM -0800 3/21/97, Eric Murray wrote:

>That last part just floored me, how could anyone be willing to throw
>away rights like that?  At least here in the US they're not so
>obvious about it- the cash (or cars or computers) are seized and
>presumed guilty until proven innocent, and of course you can't mount a
>defense if everything you own is seized and your bank accounts frozen, but
>you're still presumed innocent.  It was that evil CASH that did it.

Well, combine this revocation of rights in Canada with today's report that
Britain plans to license crypto, and with the discussion a few weeks ago
about how Anguilla and similar countries lack formal constitutions, etc.,
and one can see what is going on: most countries are "ad hocracies," making
up rules as they go along.

For all its many faults, the United States has a strong constitution and
laws are often thrown out completely because they conflict with the U.S.
Constitution.

The danger I see is that the U.S. is moving closer every day to becoming
another ad hocracy, with the regulatory and administrative powers of the
government ever more stifling and controlling.

(By the way, on the "licensing of crypto," the U.S. is about to cause
Europe to do to itself what the U.S. is essentially unable to do within the
U.S., namely, force central control of cryptography, ban rogue use, and
basically criminalize any unauthorized use. David Aaron and Louis Freeh and
the rest of the OECD/Wasenaar/NSA cabal have done their jobs well.)

--Tim May

Just say "No" to "Big Brother Inside"
We got computers, we're tapping phone lines, I know that that ain't allowed.
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
tcmay@got.net  408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Higher Power: 2^1398269     | black markets, collapse of governments.
"National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."

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At 02:30 PM 3/21/97 -0800, Eric Murray wrote:

[snip]

|The alternative, proposed by some goverment person (governor?) in Quebec,
was
|to suspend "individual liberties" for bikers, making it possible to
|pull one over at any time, search them, and if explosives are found
|assume they're guilty until proven innocent. 

[snip]

Isn't this the common ploy. "Hey, aren't we the civil liberterians; we were
going to take away _all_ your civil liberties. You should be PLEASED we took
only those we did. Besides, it's for your own good, and will be used _only_
to control those filthy drug-dealing bikers, not the decent citizenry."

What has the reaction been in Canada?

Alec
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At 08:34 AM 3/21/97 -0500, Alec wrote:
>...Hell's Angels and Rock Machine...have been battling for control of the
- ----------------------^^^^
>illegal drug trade in Canada.
>
>Canadian justice minister, Allan Rock, said
- ----------------------------------^^^^

I've had my doubts about Allan ever since the debates on the gun registration
bill.  Even Canadians can conspire.  

DCF
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