Re: Sabotaging Big Brother Inside Corporate Complicity

Kent Crispin wrote:
> Owners of a business have the right to control the documents
> associated with their business as they see fit, including using key
> escrow and mandating it for all keys used by employees in the
> business.  Other companies see this as an opportunity to supply a
> service or a product that facilitates this management.  Both classes
> of companies are pursuing completely legitimate ends.  Therefore,
> your call to sabatoge is doomed to failure in the long run, and
> probably in the short run as well.

  And owners of a body and mind have a right to control the physical
and mental environment that they live in, including using any means
necessary to protect natural human rights that have been stolen by
governments and profited from by companies who will help promote
this theft for the right price.

  Tim's call to sabatoge is not doomed to failure as long as there
are still individuals who have a conscience (and know how to use it.)
  People asked to build a potential Nazi death camp should always
avail themselves of an option to build in a backdoor, in case the
need should ever arise to use it. Or build a timebomb in a tank
that can be activated if it is needed to destroy an advancing army
of oppressors.

  Like it or not, we live in a predatorial universe, where the
biggest carnivors make the 'rules' so that they get the lion's
share of the meat, and thus remain the largest in the pack.
  Each organism, however, has their own strengths and their own
methods of survival.
  Anyone who helps build the road to their own destruction, without
availing themselves of every opportunity to sabatoge construction
of that road, is a fool.

  The fact that a slave owner keeps his slaves well-fed and
comfortable enough to cause him little trouble does not negate
the fact that, when it better suits his purpose, he will use
the whip to keep others in subjection to him.
  The time to make preparations for safety and flight is not
after you are thrown in chains. The time is alwasy _now_.

  The fact is, there are many ways of preparing for future
action which infringe little or none on the rights of others
to act in their own best interest. Arming oneself to defend
against possible threats doesn't infringe on others rights
to defend themselves..
  Armed groups passing laws to prevent others from being
able to defend themselves does.

  No matter what lengths the government goes to to infringe
on basic human rights, there will always be individuals and
corporations fighting over who gets to profit from the actions,
all the while claiming, "We don't put them in the ovens, we
just turn on the gas."

  Do corporations have more rights than the citizens?
  That depends entirely on the citizens.
  
TruthMonger
"We have met the enemy, and he is Kent."

On Tue, Apr 01, 1997 at 03:45:47PM -0800, "TruthMonger" wrote:

[cliche-ridden political babble deleted]

>   No matter what lengths the government goes to to infringe
> on basic human rights, there will always be individuals and
> corporations fighting over who gets to profit from the actions,
> all the while claiming, "We don't put them in the ovens, we
> just turn on the gas."

Oh, we're to the death camps, are we?  I guess that counts as 
invoking Hitler.

>   Do corporations have more rights than the citizens?
>   That depends entirely on the citizens.
>   
> TruthMonger
> "We have met the enemy, and he is Kent."

Actually, you don't have a clue what I think, what my motives 
are, or what I favor.  Awareness of reality is the first requirement 
for sanity.

-- 
Kent Crispin				"No reason to get excited",
kent@songbird.com			the thief he kindly spoke...
PGP fingerprint:   B1 8B 72 ED 55 21 5E 44  61 F4 58 0F 72 10 65 55
http://songbird.com/kent/pgp_key.html

At 11:22 PM 4/1/97 -0800, Kent wrote thoughtfully:

|Oh, we're to the death camps, are we?  I guess that counts as 
|invoking Hitler.

Hitler can serve as an excellent example of the outcomes
of the steps you advocate.

>Actually, you don't have a clue what I think,
>what my motives are, or what I favor.
>Awareness of reality is the first requirement for sanity.

What banal nonsense is this?
"Awareness of reality is the first requirement 
for sanity."

The awareness of the Gulag, the Deathcamps,
Japanese internment, Joe McCarthy? 

These things are real! Not part of the
political science theory-jargon you spew!

These realities _happened_ and were all justified
by their particular sponsors. 

TruthMonger

...

Let's try this theory:

"Extremism in the defense of Liberty is no vice. And...
moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue."

BG 1964

On Wed, Apr 02, 1997 at 05:43:33AM -0800, Huge Cajones Remailer wrote:
> At 11:22 PM 4/1/97 -0800, Kent wrote thoughtfully:
> 
> |Oh, we're to the death camps, are we?  I guess that counts as 
> |invoking Hitler.
> 
> Hitler can serve as an excellent example of the outcomes
> of the steps you advocate.

Hitler again.  Must be a rookie.

> >Actually, you don't have a clue what I think,
> >what my motives are, or what I favor.
> >Awareness of reality is the first requirement for sanity.
> 
> What banal nonsense is this?
> "Awareness of reality is the first requirement 
> for sanity."
> 
> The awareness of the Gulag, the Deathcamps,
> Japanese internment, Joe McCarthy? 

No, I had in mind the reality of cold water, the wind, the ground you
walk on.  You know -- real reality.  You lose touch with that, you are
in bad shape, wouldn't you agree?  Likewise, making wild assumptions 
about what people think or believe frequently leads to inappropriate 
behavior. 

> These things are real! Not part of the
> political science theory-jargon you spew!

????  Political science ????  As far as I know, I haven't said a single 
thing about political science.

> These realities _happened_ and were all justified
> by their particular sponsors.

Granted.  And your point is?

> Let's try this theory:
> 
> "Extremism in the defense of Liberty is no vice. And...
> moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue."

The one I worry about is stupidity in pursuit of extremism.

-- 
Kent Crispin				"No reason to get excited",
kent@songbird.com			the thief he kindly spoke...
PGP fingerprint:   B1 8B 72 ED 55 21 5E 44  61 F4 58 0F 72 10 65 55
http://songbird.com/kent/pgp_key.html