encryption laws (fwd)

Forwarded message:

> Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1993 23:04:39 -0400
> From: Allan Thompson <sparky12@earthlink.net>
> Subject: encryption laws

> Would it be possible for a court to subpeona a encrypted file or key,
> 
> and order you to tell them the key ?
> If you didn't would you be held in 'contempt of court' ?

If they had reasonable cause to believe you had knowledge of the key and
were refusing to divulge it under direct order of the court you would be
held in contempt until you were very old and gray.


                                                 Jim Choate
                                                 CyberTects
                                                 ravage@ssz.com

At 7:54 PM -0800 5/20/97, Jim Choate wrote:
>Forwarded message:
>
>> Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1993 23:04:39 -0400
>> From: Allan Thompson <sparky12@earthlink.net>
>> Subject: encryption laws
>
>> Would it be possible for a court to subpeona a encrypted file or key,
>>
>> and order you to tell them the key ?
>> If you didn't would you be held in 'contempt of court' ?
>
>If they had reasonable cause to believe you had knowledge of the key and
>were refusing to divulge it under direct order of the court you would be
>held in contempt until you were very old and gray.

Not necessarily. Mike Godwin, and others, have written about the
"compelling of keys." It is by no means clear that a key can be compelled.
Citing the Fifth is one approach, saying one "forgot" is another.

As to being held indefinitely, imprisonment as an inducement to cooperation
has limits. (I just saw a spiel by Alan Dershowitz and others on this
tonight, vis-a-vis how long Susan McDougal can be imprisoned for contempt
in the Whitewater investigation.)

Basically, only until there is no reasonable expectation that the contempt
will be satisfied (or whatever the exact term is).

In practice, I think the Washington, D.C. doctor, Elizabeth X, the woman
who refused to say where her children were, was held for about 2 years, and
that this was the all-time record for a contempt case. She was ultimately
released when the court concluded she had no intention of cooperating.

--Tim May

There's something wrong when I'm a felon under an increasing number of laws.
Only one response to the key grabbers is warranted: "Death to Tyrants!"
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
tcmay@got.net  408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Higher Power: 2^1398269     | black markets, collapse of governments.
"National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."

Jim Choate <ravage@EINSTEIN.ssz.com> writes:

> Forwarded message:
>
> > Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1993 23:04:39 -0400
> > From: Allan Thompson <sparky12@earthlink.net>
> > Subject: encryption laws
>
> > Would it be possible for a court to subpeona a encrypted file or key,
> >
> > and order you to tell them the key ?
> > If you didn't would you be held in 'contempt of court' ?
>
> If they had reasonable cause to believe you had knowledge of the key and
> were refusing to divulge it under direct order of the court you would be
> held in contempt until you were very old and gray.

Yes - the 5th Amendment is useless like all the other consitutional "rights".

---

Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM
Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps

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>If they had reasonable cause to believe you had knowledge of the key and
>were refusing to divulge it under direct order of the court you would be
>held in contempt until you were very old and gray.
>
>
>                                                 Jim Choate
>                                                 CyberTects
>                                                 ravage@ssz.com


Two years max.  A lot less time if you followed my strategy of spamming the 
court with daily (hourly?) screeds in which you assert in your finest Usenet 
flame language the fact that you will never follow the judge's order.

DCF
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