Re: "The policeman inside"

On or About 13 May 97 at 9:19, Tim May wrote:

> As ur-cyberpunk Burroughs noted, we must beware "the policeman
> inside."
> 
> Authorities _want_ people to "police themselves," to think twice
> before speaking freely, to limit the topic of their conversations,
> and to generally fear the knock on the door late at night (or, in
> fin de siecle Amerika, the suddent appearance of black-clad ninja in
> one's bedroom at 4 a.m., shooting anything that moves).

Hey, that shit scares me, too.  BUT:
 
> Bomb-making information is protected by the First Amendment. Period.

Correct.  It's using that technology that's the crime, in most cases.
 
> So is crypto information. So is saying Congressmen are vermin who
> need to be taken out and shot.

I think you can say "taken out and Spanked Naked In The Streets" I 
don't think you can advocate shooting them...  Correct me if I'm 
wrong.
 
> Get this straight, people!

The  First Amendment *IS* still in force.
 
> (Now whether such opinions are to one's taste, or whether the
> Cypherpunks list is a reasonable forum for posting bomb-making
> plans...well, that's a completely different issue, one of taste and
> appropriateness,

First Amendment issues are *on topic*.

> than the calls by Declan and Ray that such messages
> are dangerous and could invite retaliation by the Authorities. If
> that's indeed the case, then by all means we should be posting
> bomb-making instructions and calls for treason trials with street
> justice.)

Hey, *They* read this list anyways.  Fuck *Them* Hard.
 
> Beware the policeman inside.

Fuck the FBI, Fuck the CIA.  Fuck 'em all.  Now that's freedom!  God, 
I love America!  

=-=-=-=-=-=-
Ross Wright
King Media: Bulk Sales of Software Media and Duplication Services
http://www.slip.net/~cdr/kingmedia
Voice: (408) 259-2795

At 4:41 PM -0800 5/13/97, Ross Wright wrote:
>On or About 13 May 97 at 9:19, Tim May wrote:

>> So is crypto information. So is saying Congressmen are vermin who
>> need to be taken out and shot.
>
>I think you can say "taken out and Spanked Naked In The Streets" I
>don't think you can advocate shooting them...  Correct me if I'm
>wrong.

This has of course come up several times. The usual legal scholars can cite
chapter and verse, but it is of course perfectly legal to say that all
lawyers ought to be killed, that all politicians are scum and should be
killed, etc. It is even legal to say that all honkies ought to be offed.
And legal to express the view that the world would be a better place if
O.J. Simpson is someday killed by some brave soul.

What may be illegal--and even this if iffy--is to "incite" a _particular_
act of violence, such as urging a mob to lynch a prisoner, or perhaps
running an AP betting pool. Legal experts can discuss relevant cases here.

(Plus, the expression "taken out and shot" has cultural context implying it
is not a specific course of action being proposed. In a similar vein,
arguing that it would be a good thing if D.C. were to vanish in a puff of
plutonium smoke, or even that "D.C. ought to be nuked," these are certainly
protected First Amendment sentiments.)

What is certainly protected, or at least has been protected for centuries,
is the expression of opinions that somebody needs killing. It may be tacky
to wish death on someone (but not always tacky), but what specific crime is
being committed?

As is well known, general advocacy of violence is protected speech (modulo
some special cases that legal experts can cite).

There is a specific exception: advocating the violent overthrow of the U.S.
government. One can advocate violence, one can advocate the (non-violent)
overthrow of the government (which we call "elections"), but one cannot
advocate the violent overthrow of the government.

(Again, legal beagles can discuss cases. Clearly many have advocated the
violent overthrow of the gubment, as the Black Panthers and Weathermen did,
and yet this was not what they were charged with. So, while technically
illegal, rarely prosecuted.)


--Tim May


There's something wrong when I'm a felon under an increasing number of laws.
Only one response to the key grabbers is warranted: "Death to Tyrants!"
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
tcmay@got.net  408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Higher Power: 2^1398269     | black markets, collapse of governments.
"National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."