FW: Anonymous Remailers

-----Original Message-----
From:	Tim May [SMTP:tcmay@got.net]
Sent:	Wednesday, May 14, 1997 11:52 AM
To:	Roger J. Jones; 'cypherpunks@toad.com'
Subject:	Re: Anonymous Remailers

At 5:17 AM -0800 5/14/97, Roger J. Jones wrote:
>Why is it that some who are very concerned about their personal privacy
>utilize anonymous remailers that:
>
>1) Log all of their mail messages?

With chained, multiply-encrypted messages, logs are ineffective unless all of the links in the chain collude to trace messages. While this is certainly possible, it seems unlikely.

>2) Are in many cases reputed to be run by foreign intelligence services?

This allegation was made by some clueless Washington think tank authors.  They provided no evidence, only innuendo, and they were unwilling or unable to provide any further comments when queried by several Cypherpunks.
I suggest that just because you chose to characterize the sources as "clueless Washington think tank authors" does not (as they say in Star Trek - The Next Generation) "make it so".  The "allegation" that foreign governments actively participate in actions to violate personal privacy ("borrowing" laptops from traveling businesspeople, taping phones, etc.) are all documented in various places.  Of course, they could all the result of a single psyop with excellent results.  But I doubt it.
And given that many or even most of the remailer operators are members of the various related Cypherpunks or Remailers Operators lists, and are known to various of us, the notion that most (or even many) remailers are run by intelligence agencies is absurd.

>Do they really trust the owner of the remailer? (Unless of course, it is
>their remailer?)  I seem to be missing something.

I don't recognize your name on this list. Fine, as we always like to see new subscribers. But I surmise you just haven't spent enough time yet reading and thinking about these issues.
You may surmise what you choose.  In fact, that is the essence of free discourse.  Of course, knowing is far better than surmising.  If you care to suggest a reading list please feel free to mail it to me direct.  And yes, I am new to this most charming and entertaining list.  Thank you for the welcome
Welcome to the Cypherpunks list.
* Tim May



There's something wrong when I'm a felon under an increasing number of laws.
Only one response to the key grabbers is warranted: "Death to Tyrants!"
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay@got.net  408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^1398269     | black markets, collapse of governments.  "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."

First off, Roger, you need to find better _quoting_ software for your
replies, or explicity add "begin quote" and "end quote" markers, as some
folks are forced to do. And/or set your word wrap to a standard 70-78
columns. I found it hard to tell my own comments from your added comments,
and this only because I was able to recognize my own words! No doubt others
simply gave up and pressed the "D" key on your reply.


At 9:48 AM -0800 5/14/97, Roger J. Jones wrote:
I suggest that just because you chose to characterize the sources as
"clueless Washington think tank authors" does not (as they say in Star Trek
- The Next Generation) "make it so".  The "allegation" that foreign
governments actively participate in actions to violate personal privacy
("borrowing" laptops from traveling businesspeople, taping phones, etc.)
are all documented in various places.  Of course, they could all the result
of a single psyop with excellent results.  But I doubt it.

You may surmise what you choose.  In fact, that is the essence of free
discourse.  Of course, knowing is far better than surmising.  If you care
to suggest a reading list please feel free to mail it to me direct.  And
yes, I am new to this most charming and entertaining list.  Thank you for
the welcome


(end of the quotes from Roger)

Your first point, using some kind of Star Trek lingo, is beyond comment. I
provided a lot more context than your original point provided, and yet you
seem to want even more documentation. Go back and read the archives for a
discussion of this paper (hint: search on "remailers" ANDed with "SAIC."
Pay particular attention to the critique of this paper by such folks as
Raph Levien, and others.

As for sending a reading list to you "direct," first send me a check for
$125.00 and I'll start working on it for you.

--Tim May

There's something wrong when I'm a felon under an increasing number of laws.
Only one response to the key grabbers is warranted: "Death to Tyrants!"
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
tcmay@got.net  408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Higher Power: 2^1398269     | black markets, collapse of governments.
"National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."