Disinformation in L.A.

I just watched on CNN the images of the raid on the "militia cell" in L.A.,
cited as a cell having "thousands and thousands" of rounds of ammo (ooh,
scary!), and of having "anti-government literature" (there ought to be a
law against this kind of stuff!).

They also claimed they found "armor-piercing rounds" and "cop-killer bullets."

Well, I saw the cops and their shill reporters demonstrating what many of
us have in our own arsenals. (The Second Amendment should be repealed!)

The cops claim they know that "something was being planned." And how do
they know this? Probably the standard method: infiltrate a narc into the
group and have him plant ideas and spout extremist rhetoric, then use this
same rhetoric to get a compliant judge to issue a search warrant, even if
no actual crime has been committed. (Except the search warrant is used as a
"raid warrant," with black-clad ninjas breaking down the doors...and if the
victims inside think they're under attack by unnamed thugs and try to fight
back, a good reason for the ninjas to start shooting. A good way to dispose
of dissidents and heighten the sense of panic.)

We live in a police state.

--Tim May



There's something wrong when I'm a felon under an increasing number of laws.
Only one response to the key grabbers is warranted: "Death to Tyrants!"
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
tcmay@got.net  408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Higher Power: 2^1398269     | black markets, collapse of governments.
"National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----


In <v03007805af9a53d9a256@[207.167.93.63]>, on 05/10/97 at 10:43 AM,
   Tim May <tcmay@got.net> said:



>I just watched on CNN the images of the raid on the "militia cell" in
>L.A., cited as a cell having "thousands and thousands" of rounds of ammo
>(ooh, scary!), and of having "anti-government literature" (there ought to
>be a law against this kind of stuff!).

>They also claimed they found "armor-piercing rounds" and "cop-killer
>bullets."

>Well, I saw the cops and their shill reporters demonstrating what many of
>us have in our own arsenals. (The Second Amendment should be repealed!)

>The cops claim they know that "something was being planned." And how do
>they know this? Probably the standard method: infiltrate a narc into the
>group and have him plant ideas and spout extremist rhetoric, then use this
>same rhetoric to get a compliant judge to issue a search warrant, even if
>no actual crime has been committed. (Except the search warrant is used as
>a "raid warrant," with black-clad ninjas breaking down the doors...and if
>the victims inside think they're under attack by unnamed thugs and try to
>fight back, a good reason for the ninjas to start shooting. A good way to
>dispose of dissidents and heighten the sense of panic.)

>We live in a police state.

Don't forget that they are placing the "Race" card on this one.

On the CNN report they showed dummies with features resembling blacks &
latinos. The other news agencies have also picked up on this and are
mentioning it in their reports. Expect in the next day or two for them to
be described as "hatefull white supremist".

The only greater crime in America than being a gun owner is being a white
gun owner.

- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
William H. Geiger III  http://www.amaranth.com/~whgiii
Geiger Consulting    Cooking With Warp 4.0

Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice
PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail.
                          
Finger whgiii@amaranth.com for PGP Key and other info
- -----------------------------------------------------------
 
Tag-O-Matic: Walk through doors, don't crawl through Windows.

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At 8:06 AM -0800 5/10/97, William H. Geiger III wrote:

>Don't forget that they are placing the "Race" card on this one.
>
>On the CNN report they showed dummies with features resembling blacks &
>latinos. The other news agencies have also picked up on this and are
>mentioning it in their reports. Expect in the next day or two for them to
>be described as "hatefull white supremist".
>
>The only greater crime in America than being a gun owner is being a white
>gun owner.

Actually, the "ring leaders" cited prominently were named Yee and Ung, and
thus appear to be orientals, not whites.

(Don't forget that during the L.A. riots it was the Koreans who prominently
were defending themselves and their property with so-called "assault
weapons" against the coloreds. The main justice that came out of those
riots was that 30 square blocks of inner L.A. remain burned out and
unrebuilt, leaving those who rioted and looted with no local stores to shop
in. And the Koreans are even vastly better armed than before.)

Apropos of this last point, I wouldn't be at all surprised if "Yee" and
"Ung" turn out to be Koreans interested in defending themselves against
these hordes of animals.

--Tim May


There's something wrong when I'm a felon under an increasing number of laws.
Only one response to the key grabbers is warranted: "Death to Tyrants!"
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
tcmay@got.net  408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Higher Power: 2^1398269     | black markets, collapse of governments.
"National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----


In <v03007808af9a5e220d18@[207.167.93.63]>, on 05/10/97 at 11:23 AM,
   Tim May <tcmay@got.net> said:


>At 8:06 AM -0800 5/10/97, William H. Geiger III wrote:

>>Don't forget that they are placing the "Race" card on this one.
>>
>>On the CNN report they showed dummies with features resembling blacks &
>>latinos. The other news agencies have also picked up on this and are
>>mentioning it in their reports. Expect in the next day or two for them to
>>be described as "hatefull white supremist".
>>
>>The only greater crime in America than being a gun owner is being a white
>>gun owner.

>Actually, the "ring leaders" cited prominently were named Yee and Ung, and
>thus appear to be orientals, not whites.

>(Don't forget that during the L.A. riots it was the Koreans who
>prominently were defending themselves and their property with so-called
>"assault weapons" against the coloreds. The main justice that came out of
>those riots was that 30 square blocks of inner L.A. remain burned out and
>unrebuilt, leaving those who rioted and looted with no local stores to
>shop in. And the Koreans are even vastly better armed than before.)

I remember all to well. I was living in Texas at the time and while there
were numerous rummors and speculation that the roits would spread, ala
roits of the 60's, we were quite prepaired to prevent it from spreading to
our "neck of the woods".

>Apropos of this last point, I wouldn't be at all surprised if "Yee" and
>"Ung" turn out to be Koreans interested in defending themselves against
>these hordes of animals.

Hmmm... the reports I heard failed to mention any names.

I wouldn't be suprised if your analysis was correct. The orientals seem to
be quite hated by the inter city blacks as they are a constant reminder
that minorities can thrive and prosper in America (the only color that
really matters here is green dispite what some would have you think).

- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
William H. Geiger III  http://www.amaranth.com/~whgiii
Geiger Consulting    Cooking With Warp 4.0

Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice
PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail.
                          
Finger whgiii@amaranth.com for PGP Key and other info
- -----------------------------------------------------------
 
Tag-O-Matic: Windows isn't crippleware: it's "Fuctionally Challenged"

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"William H. Geiger III" <whgiii@amaranth.com> writes:
>
> >Apropos of this last point, I wouldn't be at all surprised if "Yee" and
> >"Ung" turn out to be Koreans interested in defending themselves against
> >these hordes of animals.
>
> Hmmm... the reports I heard failed to mention any names.
>
> I wouldn't be suprised if your analysis was correct. The orientals seem to
> be quite hated by the inter city blacks as they are a constant reminder
> that minorities can thrive and prosper in America (the only color that
> really matters here is green dispite what some would have you think).

I would generalize this statement: the vast majority of U.S. blacks
(whether the inner city parasites or the parasites employed by the
federal/state/local gubmints) extremely hate all successful immigrants,
whether orientals or Russian Jews. So do many non-black Americans.

---

Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM
Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps

Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM wrote:
> "William H. Geiger III" <whgiii@amaranth.com> writes:
> > I wouldn't be suprised if your analysis was correct. The orientals seem to
> > be quite hated by the inter city blacks as they are a constant reminder
> > that minorities can thrive and prosper in America (the only color that
> > really matters here is green dispite what some would have you think).
> 
> I would generalize this statement: the vast majority of U.S. blacks
> (whether the inner city parasites or the parasites employed by the
> federal/state/local gubmints) extremely hate all successful immigrants,
> whether orientals or Russian Jews. So do many non-black Americans.

also, many sovok immigrants hate blacks

	- Igor.

On Sat, May 10, 1997 at 09:23:57AM -0800, Tim May wrote:
> 
> (Don't forget that during the L.A. riots it was the Koreans who prominently
> were defending themselves and their property with so-called "assault
> weapons" against the coloreds. The main justice that came out of those
> riots was that 30 square blocks of inner L.A. remain burned out and
> unrebuilt, leaving those who rioted and looted with no local stores to shop
> in. And the Koreans are even vastly better armed than before.)

I wonder what would be the "main justice" to result from the 
cypherpunks riots you are advocating?

-- 
Kent Crispin				"No reason to get excited",
kent@songbird.com			the thief he kindly spoke...
PGP fingerprint:   B1 8B 72 ED 55 21 5E 44  61 F4 58 0F 72 10 65 55
http://songbird.com/kent/pgp_key.html

At 10:42 AM -0800 5/10/97, Kent Crispin wrote:
>On Sat, May 10, 1997 at 09:23:57AM -0800, Tim May wrote:
>>
>> (Don't forget that during the L.A. riots it was the Koreans who prominently
>> were defending themselves and their property with so-called "assault
>> weapons" against the coloreds. The main justice that came out of those
>> riots was that 30 square blocks of inner L.A. remain burned out and
>> unrebuilt, leaving those who rioted and looted with no local stores to shop
>> in. And the Koreans are even vastly better armed than before.)
>
>I wonder what would be the "main justice" to result from the
>cypherpunks riots you are advocating?
>

And just what "cypherpunks riots" would those be? I don't advocate that
white rise up and burn down their neighborhoods--Palo Alto, Brentwood, Boca
Raton, etc.--as some other groups have repeatedly done (South Central LA,
Liberty City, Asbury Park, etc.).

--Tim May

There's something wrong when I'm a felon under an increasing number of laws.
Only one response to the key grabbers is warranted: "Death to Tyrants!"
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
tcmay@got.net  408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Higher Power: 2^1398269     | black markets, collapse of governments.
"National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."

On Sat, May 10, 1997 at 12:20:51PM -0800, Tim May wrote:
> At 10:42 AM -0800 5/10/97, Kent Crispin wrote:
> >On Sat, May 10, 1997 at 09:23:57AM -0800, Tim May wrote:
> >>
> >> (Don't forget that during the L.A. riots it was the Koreans who prominently
> >> were defending themselves and their property with so-called "assault
> >> weapons" against the coloreds. The main justice that came out of those
> >> riots was that 30 square blocks of inner L.A. remain burned out and
> >> unrebuilt, leaving those who rioted and looted with no local stores to shop
> >> in. And the Koreans are even vastly better armed than before.)
> >
> >I wonder what would be the "main justice" to result from the
> >cypherpunks riots you are advocating?
> >
> 
> And just what "cypherpunks riots" would those be? I don't advocate that
> white rise up and burn down their neighborhoods--Palo Alto, Brentwood, Boca
> Raton, etc.--as some other groups have repeatedly done (South Central LA,
> Liberty City, Asbury Park, etc.).

Just a reference to your more than usually histrionic posts of recent 
days.  Some quotes:

"May they all be vaporized."

"Chiles and his co-conspirators should be shot for high crimes against the
Constitution. After Clinton, Freeh, Kerrey, and the other traitors."

"Every day that passes, I'm more convinced that McVeigh did the right thing.
Some innocents died, but, hey, war is hell. Broken eggs and all that."

"Many of us believe crypto anarchy will win out, and governments will be
undermined in various ways (including forcibly, using the new degrees of
freedom to deploy destructive technologies...hence my "avoid soft targets"
line)."

I'm sure someone who was more alert than I am could find many similar 
examples. 

I would expect a "cypherpunk riot" to be a little more aimed at 
cyberspace than real-world suburban neighborhoods.  Wouldn't you?

-- 
Kent Crispin				"No reason to get excited",
kent@songbird.com			the thief he kindly spoke...
PGP fingerprint:   B1 8B 72 ED 55 21 5E 44  61 F4 58 0F 72 10 65 55
http://songbird.com/kent/pgp_key.html

On Sat, 10 May 1997, Kent Crispin wrote:

> I would expect a "cypherpunk riot" to be a little more aimed at 
> cyberspace than real-world suburban neighborhoods.  Wouldn't you?

Tim was mostly talking about nuking the District of Columbia.  You will
note that that is an artificial community filled entirely with politicians
and their sycophants.  It is sort of like the train that Ayn has blow up
in the Rocky Mountain tunnel in Atlas Shrugged.  There are no innocents
there. (Well a few tourists and Ethiopian immigrants who don't know better
but you can't win 'em all.)  Note also that he is hoping others will do
the deed.  He's not volunteering. 

There will be a few unfortunate explosions in the world over the next few
years so I'm sure Tim is just hoping for a beneficial target selection.

DCF

Duncan Frissell wrote:
> On Sat, 10 May 1997, Kent Crispin wrote:
> 
> > I would expect a "cypherpunk riot" to be a little more aimed at 
> > cyberspace than real-world suburban neighborhoods.  Wouldn't you?
> 
> Tim was mostly talking about nuking the District of Columbia.  You will
> note that that is an artificial community filled entirely with politicians
> and their sycophants.  It is sort of like the train that Ayn has blow up
> in the Rocky Mountain tunnel in Atlas Shrugged.  There are no innocents
> there. (Well a few tourists and Ethiopian immigrants who don't know better
> but you can't win 'em all.)  Note also that he is hoping others will do
> the deed.  He's not volunteering. 
> 
> There will be a few unfortunate explosions in the world over the next few
> years so I'm sure Tim is just hoping for a beneficial target selection.

Duncan, it is doubtful that there is any member of this mailing list, at
least of those whom I have seen posting, who will dare to raise his fat
ass and blow something up.

The "radicals" are mostly sitting and waiting for something dramatic to
happen, preferably as far from their nice houses and bank accounts as
possible.

Jim Bell might be an exception, but I would not bet on him.

	- Igor.

ichudov@algebra.com (Igor Chudov @ home) writes:
> > There will be a few unfortunate explosions in the world over the next few
> > years so I'm sure Tim is just hoping for a beneficial target selection.
>
> Duncan, it is doubtful that there is any member of this mailing list, at
> least of those whom I have seen posting, who will dare to raise his fat
> ass and blow something up.

A good friend of mine used to be a gun-toting Black Panther in the days
of his youth.  Now he figured the U.S. ain't worth it and lives in the
Carribean.

By the way, here's a good idea for a cypherpunks project: use Adam's
prototype eternity server to place some bomb-making instrctions all
over the Web and Usenet.

Does anyone here know chemistry, besides Jim Bell, who's busy? Someone
should update the Anarchist's Cookbook.

I bet the NCSA folks are kicking themselves for missing the opportunity
to have Jim Bell speak at InfoWarCon 96 :-)

---

Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM
Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps

Here's another good idea for a cypherpunks project: *don't* use the
Eternity Server to post even more bomb-making instructions all over the
Web and Usenet.

You might remember I wrote recently about the DoJ report released this
month that calls for new legislation to ban bomb-making info online. Now
Feinstein's office tells me she's going to introduce a bill. 

No need to throw red meat to the hounds.

(Hmmm. Looking back at my message, I'm essentially saying "censor
yourself or the government will." Not sure I like that argument.)

-Declan


On Sun, 11 May 1997, Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM wrote:

> By the way, here's a good idea for a cypherpunks project: use Adam's
> prototype eternity server to place some bomb-making instrctions all
> over the Web and Usenet.
> 
> Does anyone here know chemistry, besides Jim Bell, who's busy? Someone
> should update the Anarchist's Cookbook.
> 
> I bet the NCSA folks are kicking themselves for missing the opportunity
> to have Jim Bell speak at InfoWarCon 96 :-)

On Sun, 11 May 1997, Declan McCullagh wrote:

> Here's another good idea for a cypherpunks project: *don't* use the
> Eternity Server to post even more bomb-making instructions all over the
> Web and Usenet.
> 
> You might remember I wrote recently about the DoJ report released this
> month that calls for new legislation to ban bomb-making info online. Now
> Feinstein's office tells me she's going to introduce a bill. 
> 
> No need to throw red meat to the hounds.
> 
> (Hmmm. Looking back at my message, I'm essentially saying "censor
> yourself or the government will." Not sure I like that argument.)
> 
> -Declan

Better yet, use their own tactics against them.  Order tons of bomb 
making materials in the name of their secretaries and have them sent to 
their work and their homes.  

Send them AOL disks that contain hidden files with the bomb stuff.

Then call the postal inspectors anonymously and point them at the "evidence."

:)

=====================================Kaos=Keraunos=Kybernetos==============
.+.^.+.|  Ray Arachelian    | "So make a move and plead the fifth,   |./|\.
..\|/..|sunder@sundernet.com|  'cause you can't pleade the first!"   |/\|/\
<--*-->| ------------------ |                                        |\/|\/
../|\..| "A toast to Odin,  | For with those which eternal lie, with |.\|/.
.+.v.+.|God of screwdrivers"| strange aeons, even death may die.     |.....
======================== http://www.sundernet.com =========================

At 8:19 AM -0800 5/11/97, Declan McCullagh wrote:
>Here's another good idea for a cypherpunks project: *don't* use the
>Eternity Server to post even more bomb-making instructions all over the
>Web and Usenet.
>
>You might remember I wrote recently about the DoJ report released this
>month that calls for new legislation to ban bomb-making info online. Now
>Feinstein's office tells me she's going to introduce a bill.
>
>No need to throw red meat to the hounds.
>
>(Hmmm. Looking back at my message, I'm essentially saying "censor
>yourself or the government will." Not sure I like that argument.)

You've been in D.C. too long if you're falling for this line of reasoning.

"Book publishers: learn to restrain yourselves or the government will."

"Tom Paine: learn to censor yourself, or Ye Olde King surely will."

"Cypherpunks: hold back on discussions or the Ministry of Truth will shut
you down."

I can't believe Declan is calling for self-limitations on online
discussions of that which is freely available in books, on Web sites, and
(obviously) in government publications.

The proper response to those noting that bomb-making instructions are on
the Net is "So?"

--Tim May


--
[This Bible excerpt awaiting review under the U.S. Communications Decency
Act of 1996]
And then Lot said, "I have some mighty fine young virgin daughters. Why
don't you boys just come on in and fuck them right here in my house - I'll
just watch!"....Later, up in the mountains, the younger daughter said:
"Dad's getting old. I say we should fuck him before he's too old to fuck."
So the two daughters got him drunk and screwed him all that night. Sure
enough, Dad got them pregnant, and had an incestuous bastard son....Onan
really hated the idea of doing his brother's wife and getting her pregnant
while his brother got all the credit, so he pulled out before he
came....Remember, it's not a good idea to have sex with your sister, your
brother, your parents, your pet dog, or the farm animals, unless of course
God tells you to. [excerpts from the Old Testament, Modern Vernacular
Translation, TCM, 1996]

On Sat, 10 May 1997, Duncan Frissell wrote:
> 
> Tim was mostly talking about nuking the District of Columbia.  You will
> note that that is an artificial community filled entirely with politicians
> and their sycophants.

Ahem!

I note that Washington, DC occasionally even contains Duncan Frissells,
Lucky Greens, and Sameer Parekhs.

-Declan
Washington, DC

Declan McCullagh <declan@pathfinder.com> writes:

> On Sat, 10 May 1997, Duncan Frissell wrote:
> >
> > Tim was mostly talking about nuking the District of Columbia.  You will
> > note that that is an artificial community filled entirely with politicians
> > and their sycophants.
>
> Ahem!
>
> I note that Washington, DC occasionally even contains Duncan Frissells,
> Lucky Greens, and Sameer Parekhs.

Of the lot, I don't mind seeing Lucky G. and Sameer P. nuked.
I'd hope that Duncan F. and Declan M. happen to be travelling,
but the end result is worth it. :-)

---

Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM
Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps

At 02:08 AM 5/11/97 -0400, Declan McCullagh wrote:
>
>On Sat, 10 May 1997, Duncan Frissell wrote:
>> 
>> Tim was mostly talking about nuking the District of Columbia.  You will
>> note that that is an artificial community filled entirely with politicians
>> and their sycophants.
>
>Ahem!
>
>I note that Washington, DC occasionally even contains Duncan Frissells,
>Lucky Greens, and Sameer Parekhs.
>
>-Declan
>Washington, DC
>
>
>

But not too often.

DCF

kC on TCM:
>
>"May they all be vaporized."
>
>"Every day that passes, I'm more convinced that McVeigh did the right thing.
>Some innocents died, but, hey, war is hell. Broken eggs and all that."
>

yeah, I've noticed that TCM is really uptight lately and has been way off
the scale (more so than usual) on the "panty-knot" scale. what gives,
Tim? I think the situation is mostly he's so upset that congress is
discussing bills with the words "crypto" in them, which is apparently
enough to make him cringe with terror.

when the CDA was being passed, I think his hemor^h^h^h rhetoric
swelled up then too as well. but look at what happened with the
CDA-- it got challenged, killed by lower courts, 
and is stuck in the supreme court, likely
to be struck down there too. far from the end of the world forecast
by some here.

the congressional crypto bills are generally a good thing, because
they are increasing public awareness of the issue. any bill that
is not fair or just is likely to be tested in the courts, and if
our system is beyond an orwellian tyranny, will be struck down.
do we have a constitution or not? if so, we have nothing to worry
about. (of course, I am not advocating doing nothing, but I am
advocating not panicking or calling for the "vaporization of washington"..)

there might actually be an advanteage in a very orwellian bill
*passing*. if it is struck down, perhaps no legislator would ever
try again, and those that tried would have their reputations marred
with widescale public infamy.

TCM is terrified by virtually anything that happens in govt, which is 
amusing and comical at times.

> yeah, I've noticed that TCM is really uptight lately and has been way off
> the scale (more so than usual) on the "panty-knot" scale. what gives,
> Tim? I think the situation is mostly he's so upset that congress is
> discussing bills with the words "crypto" in them, which is apparently
> enough to make him cringe with terror.

Congress discussing any bills whatsoever should make all decent people 
cringe. 

> the congressional crypto bills are generally a good thing, because
> they are increasing public awareness of the issue. any bill that
> is not fair or just is likely to be tested in the courts, and if
> our system is beyond an orwellian tyranny, will be struck down.
> do we have a constitution or not? if so, we have nothing to worry
> about. (of course, I am not advocating doing nothing, but I am
> advocating not panicking or calling for the "vaporization of washington"..)

Wrong, you would lose count very quickly indeed if you tried to count all 
the laws in the US that would lose to a fair and objective constitutional 
challenge. The constitution doesn`t mean shit any more.

The vaporization of washington should be a priority for anyone with a 
sense of self preservation or moral obligation towards his fellow man.

> there might actually be an advanteage in a very orwellian bill
> *passing*. if it is struck down, perhaps no legislator would ever
> try again, and those that tried would have their reputations marred
> with widescale public infamy.

This is certainly a possibility, but is a big risk to take and would also 
be "playing the game" with the legislators by challenging them on their 
own terms. The only challenge we should be making is the only one they 
understand: a .45 pointed up their nostil.

> TCM is terrified by virtually anything that happens in govt, which is 
> amusing and comical at times.

I find it amusing and comical, and also very worrying, to see people who 
aren`t terrified by the actions of a government that fails to recognise 
nearly all of the basic rights of it`s citizens. If you`re not part of 
the solution you`re part of the problem.

        Datacomms Technologies data security
       Paul Bradley, Paul@fatmans.demon.co.uk
  Paul@crypto.uk.eu.org, Paul@cryptography.uk.eu.org    
       Http://www.cryptography.home.ml.org/
      Email for PGP public key, ID: FC76DA85
     "Don`t forget to mount a scratch monkey"

At 3:25 PM -0800 5/10/97, Duncan Frissell wrote:
>On Sat, 10 May 1997, Kent Crispin wrote:
>
>> I would expect a "cypherpunk riot" to be a little more aimed at
>> cyberspace than real-world suburban neighborhoods.  Wouldn't you?
>
>Tim was mostly talking about nuking the District of Columbia.  You will
>note that that is an artificial community filled entirely with politicians
>and their sycophants.  It is sort of like the train that Ayn has blow up
>in the Rocky Mountain tunnel in Atlas Shrugged.  There are no innocents
>there. (Well a few tourists and Ethiopian immigrants who don't know better
>but you can't win 'em all.)  Note also that he is hoping others will do
>the deed.  He's not volunteering.
>
>There will be a few unfortunate explosions in the world over the next few
>years so I'm sure Tim is just hoping for a beneficial target selection.

Indeed. Beneficial target selection. Though I think it much more likely
that the U.S.-recognized capital of the Zionist entity will be a more
likely target to undergo nuclear cleansing. (And even there some innocent
civilians, both Muslim and Jew, will surely be hastened to their meetings
with Allah, He Whose Name May Not be Expressed (YHWH), or the Great Honey
Bear. No accounting for wanting to live in near Ground Zero...religion is a
strange thing.)

What I think a careful perusal of my comments about D.C. will reveal is
that I will not cry for its destruction, and would, all in all, smile a
broad grin if I wake up some morning to hear on CNN that D.C. is no more.
It's a free country, so I can express such happy thoughts about such
corruptions being cleansed.

(As for crypto and Cypherpunks, anyone who is honest must admit that strong
crypto and Cypherpunks are helping to make this a more plausible scenario.
The bullshit that strong crypto is only for "democratic forces" is too
naive to even comment on. Strong crypto is to give a handful of people the
power to undermine statist authorities and imperial capitals.)

--Tim May

There's something wrong when I'm a felon under an increasing number of laws.
Only one response to the key grabbers is warranted: "Death to Tyrants!"
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
tcmay@got.net  408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Higher Power: 2^1398269     | black markets, collapse of governments.
"National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

At 01:57 PM 5/10/97 -0700, Kent Crispin wrote:

>I would expect a "cypherpunk riot" to be a little more aimed at 
>cyberspace than real-world suburban neighborhoods.  Wouldn't you?

Several points come to mind:

Tim hasn't suggested that a riot would be useful or likely. He's mentioned
various forms of political violence (e.g., assassination and terrorism) but
he hasn't mentioned riots. They're not the same thing.

Riots aren't necessarily violent, nor are they necessarily or often useful to
their participants .. in fact, they may be counterproductive to the aim(s) of
their participants, except where they give the participants an opportunity to
take symbolic or emotionally satisfying action .. which usually provides very
little long-term change. But they may be useful to the riots' "opponents",
who may also be their instigators. 

I think you've been sucked into conflating "cypherpunk" with "cyberpunk",
e.g., people who define themselves socially by their (positive) relationship
to technology. A cyberpunk riot would probably take place in "cyberspace",
and would probably include messages from corporate sponsors, clean and
orderly virtual streets, and attractively drawn avatars. A cypherpunk is
defined socially/politically by a (negative) relationship to existing
political structures. The Internet *is* a cypherpunk riot.


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--
Greg Broiles                | US crypto export control policy in a nutshell:
gbroiles@netbox.com         | 
http://www.io.com/~gbroiles | Export jobs, not crypto.
                            |

(Contrary to rumors, I _do) have a live outside of the Net. I've been away
this weekend. I probably can't, or won't, respond to all of the comments
about my recent posts.)

At 12:57 PM -0800 5/10/97, Kent Crispin wrote:

>I would expect a "cypherpunk riot" to be a little more aimed at
>cyberspace than real-world suburban neighborhoods.  Wouldn't you?
>

Sorry. I misunderstood you to be speaking of the "fouling of one's own
nest" (or whatever the ebonics translation might be) riots of recent years.

You are correct that a kind of riot in cyberspace is possible. However, I
think the attacks (not riots) will not be oriented toward mayhem (no pun
intended) toward one's neighbors, but towards destablization of democracies
and military-industrial facilities.

In particular, various attacks against the national labs.

And technologies to make the "force of democracy" lose their teeth.

Subscribe to the Info-War news list for more, although they are
unfortunately biased toward the U.S. propaganda machine. (It was by some of
them that I was characterized as an "information terrorist," a label I view
as an honor.).

(Hint: I was quoted/interviewed in oppostion to the Pentagon's
"info-warriors" in a BBC television show called "The I-Bomb." My thesis,
not all of which was inclued in the BBC programme, was that strong crypto
would and should be used to destablilze U.S. efforts to dominate the New
World Order. If an I-bomb could destroy the Pentagon, Livermore, Los
Alamos, and so on, I would press the button tonight. The U.S. military
machine is vastly more powerful than it needs to be meet the threat of
invasion of our shores (hint: even Hitler and Tojo were not real threat to
U.S. shores) and whatever is needed should be done to destabilize and
sabotage the U.S. industrial war machine.)

The spread of anonymous remailer is already being used to break the back of
the U.S. war propaganda system. (Given that Lowell Wood's crimes are being
liberated and sent to non-U.S. sites for their use in defeating the war
machine).

Cypherpunks stand for making the United States just another bunch of
contiguous geographic regions.

--Tim May

There's something wrong when I'm a felon under an increasing number of laws.
Only one response to the key grabbers is warranted: "Death to Tyrants!"
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
tcmay@got.net  408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Higher Power: 2^1398269     | black markets, collapse of governments.
"National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."