`careerpunks'

[This post cc cypherpunks@algebra.com & cypherpunks@cyberpass.net to
aid propogation which seems to be struggling.]

In trying to figure out which lists were working, I noticed that there
are now many more people on coderpunks and cryptography than there are
on cypherpunks... take a look at these figures:

  713 cryptography@c2.net
  713 coderpunks@toad.com
  245 cypherpunks@algebra.com + cypherpunks@cyberpass.net - duplicates

Seems to me many of the `cypherpunks' have become `careerpunks' and
are now more interested in trading crypto tips, trade gossip, than in
cypherpunks projects.

They went through the phase of buying kewl domain names (take a look
down the subscriber lists), tinkering with remailers, and have now
graduated to making money from crypto consulting, and lost interest in
the issues where they don't add to the bottom line.

Oh yeah, I know you might argue that selling crypto is a good thing,
and it is, but the two are not completely focused in the same
direction: corporate, or consulting interests want to sell crypto, to
export crypto, cypherpunks want tools to increase the power of the
individual.

An example of this different focus is perhaps the SAFE bill.  Lots of
corporates seem keen on SAFE, because it increases their market place.
Individuals right to use crypto in the US can go to hell.

Before anyone leaps down my throat, the above is a gross
generalisation, and is intended as food for thought only.  I know
plenty of you who are involved in the crypto business and who haven't
lost your ideals, and think SAFE is a bad deal, etc.

However, I think the trend exists.

Adam

(btw coderpunks won't give you it's subscriber list unless you're
subscribed)
-- 
Have *you* exported RSA today? --> http://www.dcs.ex.ac.uk/~aba/rsa/

print pack"C*",split/\D+/,`echo "16iII*o\U@{$/=$z;[(pop,pop,unpack"H*",<>
)]}\EsMsKsN0[lN*1lK[d2%Sa2/d0<X+d*lMLa^*lN%0]dsXx++lMlN/dsM0<J]dsJxp"|dc`

At 2:16 PM -0800 5/12/97, Adam Back wrote:
>[This post cc cypherpunks@algebra.com & cypherpunks@cyberpass.net to
>aid propogation which seems to be struggling.]
>
>In trying to figure out which lists were working, I noticed that there
>are now many more people on coderpunks and cryptography than there are
>on cypherpunks... take a look at these figures:
>
>  713 cryptography@c2.net
>  713 coderpunks@toad.com
>  245 cypherpunks@algebra.com + cypherpunks@cyberpass.net - duplicates
>
>Seems to me many of the `cypherpunks' have become `careerpunks' and
>are now more interested in trading crypto tips, trade gossip, than in
>cypherpunks projects.

Interesting. I just made some similar remarks in my "Snickering at
Compromisers" article, which just went out as this one was coming in.

I know of a company most of whose employers met each other through the
Cypherpunks list. Yet the leader of this company announced that his was a
real company (which it surely is), "not just a Cypherpunks hobby."

This shows the disdain with which the Cypherpunks list is held by many
former members, who in fact had little or no interest in cryptography, and
why it is so important, prior to joining our list. Oh well, they got
educated, they formed companies, and now they are bemused that the
Cypherpunks list still exists.

To be fair to them, though, they are generally promoting the cause of
liberty and strong cryptography, and few if any former Cypherpunks are
actively supporting GAK or "key recovery" or other fascist policies.

As for the "success" of the other two list mentioned by Adam, fine, good
for them. Both are "moderated" or at least semi-moderated lists. I won't
post to either of them, not wanting either Perry Metzger or Futplex to have
control over my articles. (And, interestingly, neither of them seems to
post to Cypherpunks, so I suppose it all works out.)

The instability of the Cypherpunks address, with the obvious change from
toad.com to various other addresses (algebra.com, cyberpass.net, and even
ssz), obviously did not help.

Increasing list subscribership has never really been a priority to most of
us, anyway.

But, fact is, Adam is right that many former list members are now much more
interested in "moderated" discussions of "moderate" topics, all in
"moderation."

To each their own.

--Tim May


There's something wrong when I'm a felon under an increasing number of laws.
Only one response to the key grabbers is warranted: "Death to Tyrants!"
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
tcmay@got.net  408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Higher Power: 2^1398269     | black markets, collapse of governments.
"National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."