Microsoft will NOT ship browser with RSACi on by default

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 19:30:04 -0700 (PDT)
From: Declan McCullagh <declan@well.com>
To: fight-censorship@vorlon.mit.edu
Subject: Microsoft will NOT ship browser with RSACi on by default

Microsoft called me a few hours ago and told me that -- despite reports to
the contrary -- the company definitely will *not* ship the next version of
Internet Explorer configured to block unlabeled sites out of the box. 
"The product is going to ship with Content Advisor off by default," said
Mark Murray (mmurray@microsoft.com). 

My article at http://netlynews.com today had said:

  The next version of IE will default to displaying only properly
  labeled web pages, according to Ken Wasch, the president of the
  Software Publishers Association.

This comes after previous reports that RSACi might be default-on:

  http://pathfinder.com/netly/editorial/0,1012,476,00.html
  http://pathfinder.com/netly/editorial/0,1012,740,00.html

Kudos to Microsoft for doing the right thing.

-Declan

On Wed, 16 Jul 1997, Declan McCullagh wrote:

> Kudos to Microsoft for doing the right thing.

What is the tempriture in hell today?

Please excuse my spelling as I suffer from agraphia see the url in my header. 
Never trust a country with more peaple then sheep.  ex-net.scum and proud
You Say To People "Throw Off Your Chains" And The Make New Chains For
Themselves? --Terry Pratchett

> 
> What is the tempriture in hell today?
> 
The temperature of Heaven can be rather accurately computed from available
data.  Our authority is Isaiah 30:26, "Moreover, the light of the Moon
shall be as the light of the Sun and the light of the Sun shall be sevenfold,
as the light of seven days."  Thus Heaven receives from the Moon as much
radiation as we do from the Sun, and in addition seven times seven (49)
times as much as the Earth does from the Sun, or fifty times in all.  The
light we receive from the Moon is one ten-thousandth of the light we
receive from the Sun, so we can ignore that.  With these data we can
compute the temperature of Heaven.  The radiation falling on Heaven will
heat it to the point where the heat lost by radiation is just equal to the
heat received by radiation, i.e., Heaven loses fifty times as much 
heat as the Earth by radiation. Using the Stefan-Boltzmann law for
radiation, (H/E)^4 = 50, where E is the absolute temperature of the earth
(-300K), gives H as 798K (525C).  The exact temperature of Hell cannot be
computed, but it must be less than 444.6C, the temperature at which
brimstone or sulphur changes from a liquid to a gas.
Revelations 21:8 says "But the fearful, and unbelieving ... shall have
their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone."  A lake of
molten brimstone means that its temperature must be at or below the
boiling point, or 444.6C  (Above this point it would be a vapor, not a
lake.)  We have, then, that Heaven, at 525C is hotter than Hell at 445C.
                -- "Applied Optics", vol. 11, A14, 1972

Sorry, fortune must be invoked in times of mailing list heresy.

Bradley Reynolds
breynolds@harborcom.net
ber@cwru.edu
PGP Fingerprint: 73 17 77 08 8A 72 DB 45 76 28 C5 5A 97 52 26
PGP Public Key: http://www.harborcom.net/~breynolds/pgp.html

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In <Pine.GSO.3.95.970716193112.16504K-100000@well.com>, on 07/16/97 
   at 07:31 PM, Declan McCullagh <declan@well.com> said:

>Kudos to Microsoft for doing the right thing.

Well if Microsoft was intrested in doing the right thing they would not be
involded with RSACi at all.

There seems to be a prevelent attitude in the INet community that when
getting fucked by the government we should thank them for only sticking it
in half-way.

- -- 
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
William H. Geiger III  http://www.amaranth.com/~whgiii
Geiger Consulting    Cooking With Warp 4.0

Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice
PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail.
OS/2 PGP 2.6.3a at: http://www.amaranth.com/~whgiii/pgpmr2.html                        
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Wait -- so you're saying they *didn't* do the right thing with RSACi?

BTW, we should differentiate generally between state action and private
action. Getting fucked by Microsoft != getting fucked by the government.
This is Libertarianism 101. Of course, I admit today the distinction was
blurry.

-Declan

On Wed, 16 Jul 1997, William H. Geiger III wrote:

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> 
> In <Pine.GSO.3.95.970716193112.16504K-100000@well.com>, on 07/16/97 
>    at 07:31 PM, Declan McCullagh <declan@well.com> said:
> 
> >Kudos to Microsoft for doing the right thing.
> 
> Well if Microsoft was intrested in doing the right thing they would not be
> involded with RSACi at all.
> 
> There seems to be a prevelent attitude in the INet community that when
> getting fucked by the government we should thank them for only sticking it
> in half-way.
> 
> - -- 
> - ---------------------------------------------------------------
> William H. Geiger III  http://www.amaranth.com/~whgiii
> Geiger Consulting    Cooking With Warp 4.0
> 
> Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice
> PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail.
> OS/2 PGP 2.6.3a at: http://www.amaranth.com/~whgiii/pgpmr2.html                        
> - ---------------------------------------------------------------
> 
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> 
>

At 5:15 am -0400 on 7/17/97, Peter D. Junger wrote:


> Corporations are just parts of the government that got away.  I have
> never understood why some, though far from all, libertarians bother
> to distinguish them from the other organs of the state.

There is considerable logic to this, viz:

1. Corporations would not exist without government charter. Consequently
they have to do what governments want them to do. Being incorporated in a
number of jurisdictions helps with this, of course.

2. There are partnership options which get the same level of limited
liability, we talked about them here two or three years ago...

3. If governments dissapeared tomorrow (heh...), then business would still
happen, and large businesses would still exist given the economics of scale
inherent in our still-moderately industrial society.


Geodesic internet commerce will probably involve 'swarms' of small business
entities operating in cash-settled auction markets for goods and services,
and so the need for the integrative function corporations provide for
resources and information will eventually dissolve...

Cheers,
Bob Hettinga

-----------------
Robert Hettinga (rah@shipwright.com), Philodox
e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'
The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/

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At 10:52 AM 7/17/97 +1000, ? the Platypus {aka David Formosa} wrote:

>When microsoft has more power and money then most goverments I begin to 
>see no real difference between president Bill gates and any other
>totalrion dictator.

But how many divisions does Mr. Bill have?

DCF
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In <3.0.2.32.19970718085427.0364b774@panix.com>, on 07/18/97 
   at 08:54 AM, Duncan Frissell <frissell@panix.com> said:

>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

>At 10:52 AM 7/17/97 +1000, ? the Platypus {aka David Formosa} wrote:

>>When microsoft has more power and money then most goverments I begin to 
>>see no real difference between president Bill gates and any other
>>totalrion dictator.

>But how many divisions does Mr. Bill have?

Considering the current administration's greed I would imagine that Mr.
Bill could have the Marines land anywhere in the world on 72hr notice for
a couple of Million $$$.

- -- 
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
William H. Geiger III  http://www.amaranth.com/~whgiii
Geiger Consulting    Cooking With Warp 4.0

Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice
PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail.
OS/2 PGP 2.6.3a at: http://www.amaranth.com/~whgiii/pgpmr2.html                        
- ---------------------------------------------------------------

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Duncan Frissell <frissell@panix.com> writes:

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> 
> At 10:52 AM 7/17/97 +1000, ? the Platypus {aka David Formosa} wrote:
> 
> >When microsoft has more power and money then most goverments I begin to 
> >see no real difference between president Bill gates and any other
> >totalrion dictator.
> 
> But how many divisions does Mr. Bill have?

The pope could beat the shit out of Bill if it was a real
Italian pope and not some dumb polack.

---

Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM
Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps

On Wed, 16 Jul 1997, Declan McCullagh wrote:

> Wait -- so you're saying they *didn't* do the right thing with RSACi?
> 
> BTW, we should differentiate generally between state action and private
> action. Getting fucked by Microsoft != getting fucked by the government.

When microsoft has more power and money then most goverments I begin to 
see no real difference between president Bill gates and any other
totalrion dictator.

Please excuse my spelling as I suffer from agraphia see the url in my header. 
Never trust a country with more peaple then sheep.  ex-net.scum and proud
You Say To People "Throw Off Your Chains" And They Make New Chains For
Themselves? --Terry Pratchett

At 8:54 am -0400 on 7/18/97, Duncan Frissell wrote:


> But how many divisions does Mr. Bill have?

Let's see...

How much did that trip to see Clinton on Martha's Vinyard cost last year?
The price of a jet flight and luxocondo rent? Whatever campaign / GAK
consideration Mr. Bill gave Clinton/Gore '96 at the time certainly called
off an entire anti-trust action by the Justice Department in a big hurry.
One could say it netted him all Mirosoft stock appreciation since, about
$18 billion, says Forbes this week.

Of course, payback's a bitch, as we're finding out now in the current
campaign to "save our children from the Internet".

To answer your question, Duncan, Mr. Bill could just go to Bill96 and call
up an Army division anywhere he wanted, I bet, but, frankly, he's much more
likely to ask for Microsoft Internet 99 (nee' Internet II) instead.
Complete, of course, with a brand new feature: Book-Entry Routing(tm).

Payback would be a bitch, again, but it's not Mr. Bill who's paying, is it?


Cheers,
Bob Hettinga

-----------------
Robert Hettinga (rah@shipwright.com), Philodox
e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'
The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/

Declan McCullagh writes:

: BTW, we should differentiate generally between state action and private
: action. Getting fucked by Microsoft != getting fucked by the government.
: This is Libertarianism 101. Of course, I admit today the distinction was
: blurry.

Corporations are just parts of the government that got away.  I have
never understood why some, though far from all, libertarians bother
to distinguish them from the other organs of the state. 

--
Peter D. Junger--Case Western Reserve University Law School--Cleveland, OH
 EMAIL: junger@samsara.law.cwru.edu    URL:  http://samsara.law.cwru.edu   
     NOTE: junger@pdj2-ra.f-remote.cwru.edu no longer exists

> : BTW, we should differentiate generally between state action and private
> : action. Getting fucked by Microsoft != getting fucked by the government.
> : This is Libertarianism 101. Of course, I admit today the distinction was
> : blurry.
> 
> Corporations are just parts of the government that got away.  I have
> never understood why some, though far from all, libertarians bother
> to distinguish them from the other organs of the state. 

If I read this the right way I would suppose that you are saying that a 
corporate agreement to include rating systems in all browsers would be on 
a par with mandated inclusion pushed through by the government. Not so: 
The government uses force and violence to make individuals and companies 
do it`s bidding, if the government did not enforce laws they wouldn`t be 
wrong, because there would be no act of agression. Assuming a large 
company such as M$ were to decide any company not including rating 
systems in their browsers could be fined by M$, then that would be a 
similar situation to the one currently experienced with the government.

        Datacomms Technologies data security
       Paul Bradley, Paul@fatmans.demon.co.uk
  Paul@crypto.uk.eu.org, Paul@cryptography.uk.eu.org    
       Http://www.cryptography.home.ml.org/
      Email for PGP public key, ID: FC76DA85
     "Don`t forget to mount a scratch monkey"

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In <Pine.GSO.3.95.970716212852.24530B-100000@well.com>, on 07/16/97 
   at 11:29 PM, Declan McCullagh <declan@well.com> said:

>Wait -- so you're saying they *didn't* do the right thing with RSACi?

Yes that is exactly what I am saying. The *right* thing to do would have
been to just walked away from the whole thing and let the market decide.


>BTW, we should differentiate generally between state action and private
>action. Getting fucked by Microsoft != getting fucked by the government.
>This is Libertarianism 101. Of course, I admit today the distinction was
>blurry.

Well here it seems you have one fucking you and the other holding you
down. In the eyes of the person getting fucked does it really matter who
is doing which?

- -- 
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
William H. Geiger III  http://www.amaranth.com/~whgiii
Geiger Consulting    Cooking With Warp 4.0

Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice
PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail.
OS/2 PGP 2.6.3a at: http://www.amaranth.com/~whgiii/pgpmr2.html                        
- ---------------------------------------------------------------

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> There seems to be a prevelent attitude in the INet community that when
> getting fucked by the government we should thank them for only sticking it
> in half-way.

ObTastelessCypherpunkJoke:

Q. What do you do if a woman says "give me 12 inches and hurt me"?

A. Stick it in half way and punch her....


        Datacomms Technologies data security
       Paul Bradley, Paul@fatmans.demon.co.uk
  Paul@crypto.uk.eu.org, Paul@cryptography.uk.eu.org    
       Http://www.cryptography.home.ml.org/
      Email for PGP public key, ID: FC76DA85
     "Don`t forget to mount a scratch monkey"