Re: e$: $MTP? (fwd)

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Fri, 4 Jul 1997 15:45:24 -0400 (edt)
From: Ryan Anderson <randerso@ece.eng.wayne.edu>
To: Robert Hettinga <rah@shipwright.com>
Subject: Re: e$: $MTP?

> Frankly, I see no other solution to this problem in the long run except for
> postage, which means it's probably time to start figuring out, in earnest,
> how to make it all work. Whoever becomes the lowest cost producer of this
> kind of software stands to make a whole *bunch* of money.

We still need to work out how to fit mailing lists fit into this without
eliminating them entirely. Chargebacks to the subscribers?  If this list
will work in a proposed plan, I think all the others probably would as
well.. :-)

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Ryan Anderson - <Pug Majere>     "Who knows, even the horse might sing" 
Wayne State University - CULMA   "May you live in interesting times.."
randerso@ece.eng.wayne.edu                        Ohio = VYI of the USA 
PGP Fingerprint - 7E 8E C6 54 96 AC D9 57  E4 F8 AE 9C 10 7E 78 C9
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At 3:45 PM -0400 7/4/97, Ryan Anderson wrote:
>---------- Forwarded message ----------
>Date: Fri, 4 Jul 1997 15:45:24 -0400 (edt)
>From: Ryan Anderson <randerso@ece.eng.wayne.edu>
>To: Robert Hettinga <rah@shipwright.com>
>Subject: Re: e$: $MTP?
>
>> Frankly, I see no other solution to this problem in the long run except for
>> postage, which means it's probably time to start figuring out, in earnest,
>> how to make it all work. Whoever becomes the lowest cost producer of this
>> kind of software stands to make a whole *bunch* of money.
>
>We still need to work out how to fit mailing lists fit into this without
>eliminating them entirely. Chargebacks to the subscribers?  If this list
>will work in a proposed plan, I think all the others probably would as
>well.. :-)

If the email program (client or $MTP) creates/maintains a 'known party'
list which isn't expected to include postage this solves the mailing list
problem.

--Steve


PGP mail preferred
Fingerprint: FE 90 1A 95 9D EA 8D 61  81 2E CC A9 A4 4A FB A9
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Steve Schear              | tel: (702) 658-2654
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        I know not what instruments others may use,
        but as for me, give me Ecache or give me debt.

        SHOW ME THE DIGITS!

> > Frankly, I see no other solution to this problem in the long run except for
> > postage, which means it's probably time to start figuring out, in earnest,
> > how to make it all work. Whoever becomes the lowest cost producer of this
> > kind of software stands to make a whole *bunch* of money.
> 
> We still need to work out how to fit mailing lists fit into this without
> eliminating them entirely. Chargebacks to the subscribers?  If this list
> will work in a proposed plan, I think all the others probably would as
> well.. :-)

I personally see hashcash as the ideal way to solve this problem, and in 
Adam Back`s analysis of the hashcash solution he mentions mailing lists 
and suggest that filtering software have an explicit "filter in" command, 
so you could eliminate any mail coming from the list from needing to have 
cash attached. Of course the spammers could then just spam mailing lists, 
but that it a much smaller problem than the current random UCE problem.

        Datacomms Technologies data security
       Paul Bradley, Paul@fatmans.demon.co.uk
  Paul@crypto.uk.eu.org, Paul@cryptography.uk.eu.org    
       Http://www.cryptography.home.ml.org/
      Email for PGP public key, ID: FC76DA85
     "Don`t forget to mount a scratch monkey"

On Sat, 5 Jul 1997, Paul Bradley wrote:

> > > Frankly, I see no other solution to this problem in the long run except for
> > > postage, which means it's probably time to start figuring out, in earnest,
> > > how to make it all work. Whoever becomes the lowest cost producer of this
> > > kind of software stands to make a whole *bunch* of money.
> > 
> > We still need to work out how to fit mailing lists fit into this without
> > eliminating them entirely. Chargebacks to the subscribers?  If this list
> > will work in a proposed plan, I think all the others probably would as
> > well.. :-)
> 
> I personally see hashcash as the ideal way to solve this problem, and in 
> Adam Back`s analysis of the hashcash solution he mentions mailing lists 
> and suggest that filtering software have an explicit "filter in" command, 
> so you could eliminate any mail coming from the list from needing to have 
> cash attached. Of course the spammers could then just spam mailing lists, 
> but that it a much smaller problem than the current random UCE problem.

If all mail relays were either limited to sending to or from their
domains, and had a settable quota on Bcc: it would go a long way.  Since
mailers are high in Bcc, they could get a large quota.

I don't think spammers now send 500 discrete messages, especially long
ones, merely Bcc: 500 people.

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