Re: Cypherpunks as a Terrorist Organization

On Mon, 18 Aug 1997, Tim May wrote:
 
> First, the rise of search engines, archives, and employers routinely
> running DejaNews and other search engine checks on potential employees
and
> consultants to see what sorts of folks they are. (Whether being active
on
> the Cypherpunks list will nix a job is pretty unlikely, but it's still a
> worry to some.)
 
Hey Tim, speaking of DejaNews, how soon do you think it will be before
there is a Ministry of Truth (minitru) in place to correct incorrect
postings of the past, to update them a bit and airbrush out those who, um,  
never existed?
 
> of sorts. But many have been investigated, and, as John Young noted
> recently, the IRS treats membership in certain organizations as a
threat.
> And there is Clinton's Anti-Terrorism Act, which explicitly makes
certain
> kinds of financial and other activities illegal, even by Americans,
which
> involve support of "terrorist" organizations. It is not inconceivable
that,
> following outlawing of strong crypto in various countries, that the     
> Cypherpunks group gets classified as an organization or group which
> supports terrorist goals, which is almost certainly true.)
 
No bigger a threat than the HUAC saw those who didn't believe the Hoover
vision.  Nothing's really changed since then other than the faces and the  
names.  The issues remain.
 
> Fourth, the arrest and prosecution of Jim Bell, with tax evasion and a
> minor stink bomb case turned into a "federal case" because of his
> controversial views. This has obviously angered and radicalized many.
Some
> of us have stocked up on more asault weapons and shotguns, placed alarms
> around our property, and we are expecting a "raid." As I have said, if  
> black-clad ninja raiders try to hit me, I'll assume they're "home
invaders"
> and will open fire. (A Sheriff's Deputy once told me that even saying I 
> would defend my home against unwelcome intruders constituted a "threat"
and
> that he might order a detachment to visit my compound. So far, two years
> later, he hasn't made good on _his_ threat. And now I'm more ready for
him
> than ever.)
 
A theat to him perhaps.  What ever happened to self defense I wonder?     
 
> So, "B.," stop apologizing for reading the list. You're already a marked
> man in their eyes...and search engines can already identify the True
Name
> who is posting the last year or two as "Zooko Journeyman." In a couple
of
> years, all search engines will have "known aliases" macros to
automatically
> ferret out the web of pseudonyms linkable to a poster. You can run, but
you
> can't hide.
 
Not unless he joins the book people in the woods. :)
 
 
> And "democracy" is spinning out of control, being used by authoritarians
to
> convert the world into a security state. Restrictions on travel, new
drug
> laws, laws against images and words on the Net, and thousands of new
laws
> every years.
 
Congress was indeed a horrid idea.  We need no laws other that "do what
you will as long as you don't physically injure, or steal."  All else is
congressional bullshit paid in bloody tax money.
 
> A frontal assault, using strong crypto to aid in the attacks by freedom 
> fighters and to destablize authority, makes more sense. When a
government
> official decrees that citizen-units may no longer do certain things
which
> were once quite legal and quite common (such as owning a gun for
defense),
> that official must expect certain repercussions.
 
A few years back when the anti-gun crap started in NYC, they had all sorts
of save the kids propaganda stories and projects: such as trade your gun
for a toy, and stories like 8 year old shot dead by drug deal for
threatening to use water pistol.
 
> We're in a state of war with the statists and tyrants. It's what
Jefferson
> and the other Founders expected to happen, and now the watering with the   
> blood of patriots and tyrants is happening.
 
Some war.  We've already lost.  The Big Brother machine is already in
place and has been since Hoover.  Jim Bell was arrested for thinking
differently than is allowed.  No different than being declared insane and
sent to the Gulag for "re-education" for disagreement with the party, the  
glorious party.  Not having lived in communist or fascist countries, the
sheeple are asleep.
 
My parents having left a socialist state (read fascist) for freedom, I
find freedom fleeting.  The same scum that ran the communist block are
here running our country.  Sure they were born here, but their spirit and 
beliefs are the same as the scum that were in power in the old country.   
 
How much money are we to bleed to them in taxes (read plural, as in
income, realestate, hotel, parking, gas and electric, telephone, taxes on
tax returns, etc.)?  How soon before breathing taxes? Fucking Taxes?
Living Taxes?  Speaking Taxes?  Let's not pretend.  We work for them.
It's mandatory work.  Our work pays their goals.  Doesn't matter if you
work for Mickey D's or Mickey Soft.  You pay Big Uncle.  You work for Big
Uncle's benefit.  It's not enough to fear Big Uncle.  You must love big   
uncle.  One may not even hold anti-government views for fear of being in
contempt of court and be judged against.
 
> It's what the Founders expected.  Get used to it.
 
How soon before they stop teaching highschool kids about the revolution
for fear it will happen again?  How soon before they edit the constitution
and pretend it was always that way?  How soon before we'll need passports
to travel between one part of the country and another?  Between one 'burb
to another?

 
How soon before we have to register every computer out there?  How soon
before we have to register every phone and phone card?  Every pencil and   
knife and fork and other sharp objects? How soon before night curfews?
How soon before Victory Coffee and Gin?  How soon to food rations?  How
soon to electricity rations and water rations and net access rations? How
soon before ex-communist Russia has more freedom than we?
 
They've already silenced us, they've already taken our guns, they've
already thrown us in jail for feeding others, for speaking, thinking and  
protesting, and demanding privacy, they've already stripped our privacy,   
they've already murdered us, they've already licensed everything we can do 
and can't, they've already filled the streets with jackbooted gun and
nightstick toting thugs who wear blue and use bathroom plungers as means
of interrogation.
 
What next?  And how soon?
 


---
 Trevor Goodchild

At 9:00 AM -0700 8/19/97, Trevor Goodchild wrote:

>Hey Tim, speaking of DejaNews, how soon do you think it will be before
>there is a Ministry of Truth (minitru) in place to correct incorrect
>postings of the past, to update them a bit and airbrush out those who, um,
>never existed?

As a matter of fact, I expect there have already been actions demanding
that DejaNews purge their data bases of some posting or another. After all,
they are truly a form of "eternity server."

(I don't mean "no archive," I mean cases where Individual A or Company B
finds something they don't like--libel, trade secrets, whatever--and
demands that references be expunged.)

And on the Cypherpunks list, we saw a similar rewriting of history. Once
the censor decided that any posts critical of a certain company's security
products were not to be allowed on the censored list, then he had to block
posts which even _referenced_ this act of censorship. Such has it always
been with censors, such shall it always be.

....
>No bigger a threat than the HUAC saw those who didn't believe the Hoover
>vision.  Nothing's really changed since then other than the faces and the
>names.  The issues remain.

Indeed, the HUAC has effectively been reconstituted. For PR and
administrative reasons, it is no longer the House UnAmerican Activities
Committee. No political mileage in such a form. And lots of PR downside.
But it's still there, of course. The Four Horsemen: Terrorists, Drug
Dealers, Pornographers, and Money Launderers. These are invoked to pass
more draconial laws and to imprison dissidents.

...
>> and will open fire. (A Sheriff's Deputy once told me that even saying I
>> would defend my home against unwelcome intruders constituted a "threat"
>and
>> that he might order a detachment to visit my compound. So far, two years
>> later, he hasn't made good on _his_ threat. And now I'm more ready for
>him
>> than ever.)
>
>A theat to him perhaps.  What ever happened to self defense I wonder?

It's been very tough for many years to win a case of killing police based
on "self defense" arguments. Had Abner Louima tried to shoot his sodomizers
they would have just drawn down on him and zapped him. It then wouldn't
have even made the news, except on page 17.

(And had he died during his toilet plunger experience, they'd have shot
him, then planted a piece on him. Case closed.)


>Congress was indeed a horrid idea.  We need no laws other that "do what
>you will as long as you don't physically injure, or steal."  All else is
>congressional bullshit paid in bloody tax money.

Amen, brother.


>My parents having left a socialist state (read fascist) for freedom, I
>find freedom fleeting.  The same scum that ran the communist block are
>here running our country.  Sure they were born here, but their spirit and
>beliefs are the same as the scum that were in power in the old country.

Indeed. And much more basic than "left" vs. "right" are the usual issues of
control" those in power want to stay in power and want to extend their
power. The alleged "leftists" (communists, socialists) in power in Eastern
Europe and the U.S.S.R. were of course not leftists first and foremost.
They were just the leaders, the gangleaders, the company presidents, of the
monopoly force. (No time for a political discussion, but both fascism and
communism, as practiced this century, are cases of a "corporate state,"
with the corporation = the state. As Mussolini said, "fascism is
corporatism.")

>How soon before they stop teaching highschool kids about the revolution
>for fear it will happen again?  How soon before they edit the constitution
>and pretend it was always that way?  How soon before we'll need passports
>to travel between one part of the country and another?  Between one 'burb
>to another?

Well, I graduated from a pretty good high school in Fairfax County,
Virginia, a suburb of D.C., in 1970. Even by the time I took U.S. history
in 1968 or so, more time was spent discussing "Crispus Attuck," the noble
black man who fought in some battle in Boston or Lexington or somesuch,
than in discussing the Founder's warnings that a revolution would probably
have to be fought again in a generation (20 years).  It seems that
discussing the "relevance" (a totemic word back in '68) of the American
Revolution to the lives of blacks and to the assassination of Martin Luther
King, Jr. was more important than exploring what the Revolution really
means to the struggle against central authoritarian governments.

So, if my high school was teaching this crap almost 30 years ago, I can
only imagine what time has done.


>knife and fork and other sharp objects? How soon before night curfews?

Many communities have night curfews. I got into a heated discussion here in
Santa Cruz, California, when I said on a local newsgroup that my son had
been instructed to ignore the illegal restriction on his movements, and
that if he was arrested he should expect to sit in jail, as I was not going
to drive down to the jail and bail him out or sign for him, or whatever.

(I was hoping to get one of those famous calls from "Child Protective
Services," based on this post, so I could tell them to fuck off and watch
the sparks fly. Maybe even get one of their vans pulling into my parking
lot. Alas, no such call. And nearly all the folks in scruz.general who
commented on the issue seemed to agree that curfews are unconstitutional
restrictions on their freedom to decide where their children should be at
various times.)


>They've already silenced us, they've already taken our guns, they've
>already thrown us in jail for feeding others, for speaking, thinking and
>protesting, and demanding privacy, they've already stripped our privacy,
>they've already murdered us, they've already licensed everything we can do
>and can't, they've already filled the streets with jackbooted gun and
>nightstick toting thugs who wear blue and use bathroom plungers as means
>of interrogation.
>
>What next?  And how soon?

They've _tried_ to take our guns, you mean. Here in Kalifornia, something
like 80% of "assault rifle" owners have failed to comply with the laws
requiring registration, licensing, taxes, etc.

(Many of us bought Colt AR-15s and Valmet AK-47 lookalikes in the 1970s and
80s, and made damn sure we bought them at gun shows, for cash. With no
identities being disclosed. These rifles are now the backbone of the
militia movement, and the authorities are basically unwilling to try to
enforce the unconsitutional laws about these "black guns.")

--Tim May, still a felon under their bullshit laws, for which the
politicians will eventually pay a price

There's something wrong when I'm a felon under an increasing number of laws.
Only one response to the key grabbers is warranted: "Death to Tyrants!"
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
tcmay@got.net  408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Higher Power: 2^1398269     | black markets, collapse of governments.
"National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."

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On Tue, 19 Aug 1997, Tim May wrote:

[...]

> As a matter of fact, I expect there have already been actions demanding
> that DejaNews purge their data bases of some posting or another. After all,
> they are truly a form of "eternity server."

It is possable to remove your own posts from the dejanews. However there
policy says basicly We just index Usenet we are not responcible for what
peaple stick on it.

Never trust a country with more peaple then sheep.  ex-net.scum and proud
You Say To People "Throw Off Your Chains" And They Make New Chains For
Themselves? --Terry Pratchett

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Tim May <tcmay@got.net> writes:

> As a matter of fact, I expect there have already been actions demanding
> that DejaNews purge their data bases of some posting or another. After all,
> they are truly a form of "eternity server."

I know for a fact that DejaNews has complied with a request from
one of the news.admin.* assholes to delete an article posted by
another person calling said asshole a pedophile.

---

Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM
Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps