11 expanded posts ยท every known parent and child
Gao's Chaos Cryptosystem Algorithm 1.key input 2.input key generate chaos initial condition 3.input key generate chaos signal(random number) 4.chaos initial condition plus chaos signal XOR plain text ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
On Mon, 8 Sep 1997, Nobuki Nakatuji wrote: > Gao's Chaos Cryptosystem Algorithm [...] > 4.chaos initial condition plus chaos signal > XOR plain text Wouldn't it be a good idear to use some sort of feed back method? -- Please excuse my spelling as I suffer from agraphia see the url in my header. Never trust a country with more peaple then sheep. ex-net.scum and proud You Say To People "Throw Off Your Chains" And They Make New Chains For Themselves? --Terry Pratchett
Nobuki Nakatuji wrote: > > > Gao's Chaos Cryptosystem Algorithm > > 1.key input > 2.input key generate chaos initial condition > 3.input key generate chaos signal(random number) > 4.chaos initial condition plus chaos signal > XOR plain text How do you generate "chaos"? - Igor.
On Mon, 8 Sep 1997, Igor Chudov @ home wrote: > How do you generate "chaos"? If you're the FBI, you simply say you're gonna push laws to ban all non escrowed crypto, and that causes imediate chaos on the cypherpunks lists. You then get a bunch of SHA1 digests of the messages and you've got plenty of random numbers. :-) =====================================Kaos=Keraunos=Kybernetos============== .+.^.+.| Ray Arachelian |Prying open my 3rd eye. So good to see |./|\. ..\|/..|sunder@sundernet.com|you once again. I thought you were |/\|/\ <--*-->| ------------------ |hiding, and you thought that I had run |\/|\/ ../|\..| "A toast to Odin, |away chasing the tail of dogma. I opened|.\|/. .+.v.+.|God of screwdrivers"|my eye and there we were.... |..... ======================= http://www.sundernet.com ==========================
[EFF-Bienfait, Saskatchewan] September 11, 1997 RAY ARACHELIAN, a member of the soon-to-be-outlawed CypherPunks crypto-military organization was presented with a forged Nobel Peace Prize early this morning in recognition of providing proof for his long held Kaos=Keraunos=Kybernetos theorem. In response to a question by Russian double-secret agent Igor Chudov, who asked, "How do you generate 'chaos'?," Arachelian responded: "If you're the FBI, you simply say you're gonna push laws to ban all non-escrowed crypto, and that causes imemdiate chaos on the cypherpunks lists. You then get a bunch of SHA1 digests of the messages and you've got plenty of random numbers. :-)" EFF decided to award Arachelian a forged Nobel Peace Prize, not for the originality of his idea, but for the fact that he had the audacity to steal the idea from fellow CypherPunk, Tim C. May, who would have suggested it in the 1989 CypherPunks archives, if the legendary mailing list had been operational at that time. The award was presented by a rather disheveled looking fellow who couldn't remember his name, but who told Arachelian, "I'm a very important man." before pausing to pick something out of his teeth, and continuing, with two raised fingers, "Peace." Asked for comment, Arachelian stated "I thought he'd never leave. Did you get a load of his _breath_? Whooeee!" --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
At 7:54 PM -0700 9/8/97, Igor Chudov @ home wrote: >Nobuki Nakatuji wrote: >> >> >> Gao's Chaos Cryptosystem Algorithm >> >> 1.key input >> 2.input key generate chaos initial condition >> 3.input key generate chaos signal(random number) >> 4.chaos initial condition plus chaos signal >> XOR plain text > >How do you generate "chaos"? > > - Igor. Chaos may be generated with dripping water faucets, with alpha particle emissions, with Johnson noise. It matters not, though, as schemes like this are dependent on key exchange, and by repeatability of whatever "chaotic process" they employ. They can be ignored. The fact that "Nobuki Nakatuji" only appeared on our list days before the revealing of his profound new breakthrough is telling. And all too predictable. --Tim May There's something wrong when I'm a felon under an increasing number of laws. Only one response to the key grabbers is warranted: "Death to Tyrants!" ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay@got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^1398269 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."
Tim May wrote: > At 7:54 PM -0700 9/8/97, Igor Chudov @ home wrote: > >Nobuki Nakatuji wrote: > >> Gao's Chaos Cryptosystem Algorithm > >> > >> 1.key input > >> 2.input key generate chaos initial condition > >> 3.input key generate chaos signal(random number) > >> 4.chaos initial condition plus chaos signal > >> XOR plain text > > > >How do you generate "chaos"? > > > > - Igor. > > Chaos may be generated with dripping water faucets, with alpha particle > emissions, with Johnson noise. > > It matters not, though, as schemes like this are dependent on key exchange, > and by repeatability of whatever "chaotic process" they employ. > > They can be ignored. > > The fact that "Nobuki Nakatuji" only appeared on our list days before the > revealing of his profound new breakthrough is telling. And all too > predictable. Tim, my question was related to items 2 and 3. I think that Nobuku san suggested a way to generate a stream of pseudo-random bits from an inputted text. The important question is, how Prof. Nobuku is going to do it exactly. If done right, I believe that his system is great if the key is never reused. Is that correct? Sayonara - Igor.
At 9:15 PM -0700 9/8/97, Igor Chudov @ home wrote: >Tim, my question was related to items 2 and 3. I think that Nobuku san >suggested a way to generate a stream of pseudo-random bits from an >inputted text. The important question is, how Prof. Nobuku is going to >do it exactly. If done right, I believe that his system is great if the >key is never reused. > >Is that correct? > >Sayonara Why do you think a private key system, even one based on trendy buzzwords (e,g, "chaos") is interesting? Do you think means of generating one time pads have been lacking? As for "his system is great if the key is never reused," think about it. As Santayana-san put it, each generation which fails to learn the lessons of cryptography is condemned to reinvent the one time pad, and to give it a trendy new name (virtual, chaotic, aptical, gaos, etc.). --Tim May There's something wrong when I'm a felon under an increasing number of laws. Only one response to the key grabbers is warranted: "Death to Tyrants!" ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay@got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^1398269 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."
Tim May wrote: > At 9:15 PM -0700 9/8/97, Igor Chudov @ home wrote: > >Tim, my question was related to items 2 and 3. I think that Nobuku san > >suggested a way to generate a stream of pseudo-random bits from an > >inputted text. The important question is, how Prof. Nobuku is going to > >do it exactly. If done right, I believe that his system is great if the > >key is never reused. > > > >Is that correct? > > > >Sayonara > > Why do you think a private key system, even one based on trendy buzzwords > (e,g, "chaos") is interesting? I think that what Nobuku described is not a private key system (because keys cannot be reused), but rather an approach to generating one time pads. Whether something that is interesting to me should also be interesting to you is open to question. > Do you think means of generating one time pads have been lacking? I think that one more good way of doing it would not hurt. > As for "his system is great if the key is never reused," think about it. > As Santayana-san put it, each generation which fails to learn the lessons > of cryptography is condemned to reinvent the one time pad, and to give it a > trendy new name (virtual, chaotic, aptical, gaos, etc.). So what if he reinvents something? Most of what high school and undergrad students do is learning and reinventing ideas that are already known. That does not make study less exciting. The interesting question that Nobuku can answer is how he generates the key from the input. - Igor.
At 11:50 PM 9/8/97 -0500, Igor Chudov @ home wrote: >I think that what Nobuku described is not a private key system (because >keys cannot be reused), but rather an approach to generating one time pads. Arrrgh! No! If you read the early references, it's clearly a stream cypher, and used as such. The same bitstream is generated at both ends. Pretending it's a True Random One-Time Pad would be snake oil, but that's your mistake, not Nobuku's or Gao's. It's true that keys cannot be reused, but that's the same for RC4. >> Do you think means of generating one time pads have been lacking? >I think that one more good way of doing it would not hurt. And one more non-truly-random way of doing it just puts more snake oil on the shelf. If there are any bytes that are correlated and not independent, it's Bad Pad. Tim May wrote: >> Why do you think a private key system, even one based on trendy buzzwords >> (e,g, "chaos") is interesting? Crypto mathematics is always interesting, if written well, and if it's the first time you've seen something rather than Yet Another LCM PRNG.
stewarts@ix.netcom.com wrote: > > > At 11:50 PM 9/8/97 -0500, Igor Chudov @ home wrote: > >I think that what Nobuku described is not a private key system (because > >keys cannot be reused), but rather an approach to generating one time pads. > > Arrrgh! No! If you read the early references, it's clearly a stream cypher, > and used as such. The same bitstream is generated at both ends. > Pretending it's a True Random One-Time Pad would be snake oil, > but that's your mistake, not Nobuku's or Gao's. > It's true that keys cannot be reused, but that's the same for RC4. Well, I did not say that it was true random one time pad. :) > >> Do you think means of generating one time pads have been lacking? > >I think that one more good way of doing it would not hurt. > And one more non-truly-random way of doing it just puts more snake oil on > the shelf. > If there are any bytes that are correlated and not independent, it's Bad Pad. > > Tim May wrote: > >> Why do you think a private key system, even one based on trendy buzzwords > >> (e,g, "chaos") is interesting? > Crypto mathematics is always interesting, if written well, > and if it's the first time you've seen something rather than Yet Another > LCM PRNG. > > - Igor.