Re: The Telcos oppose Oxley

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At 06:32 PM 9/24/97 -0400, Declan McCullagh wrote:
>At 13:23 -0700 9/24/97, Lizard wrote:
>>At 09:47 PM 9/24/97 +0200, Peter Herngaard wrote:
>>>They support the penalty enhancement for use of encryption
>>>in futherance of a felony.
>>
>>I don't find this particularly offensive, on the grounds that if 
you're
>>convicted of any given crime, the government can more-or-less drum 
up so
>>many related charges they can put you away for 500 years ANYWAY, so 
what
>>difference does it make?
>
>Lizard's position is sadly incoherent. If he believes in civil 
liberties --
>and I know he does -- then he should think twice. Just because the 
federal
>government has broad powers doesn't mean we should give them more.
>
<shrug> Rather, my position is that the system is ALREADY hopelessly 
corrupt and imbalanced;altering the letter of the law to say '20 
years' as opposed to '10 years' FOR SOMETHING THAT SHOULDN'T BE A 
CRIME AT ALL is irrelevant. The government can just as easily create 
two trumped-up ten year charges as it can one 20 year charge;'law' 
and 'justice' have nothing to do with one another anymore.

The whole concept of criminilizing the use of crpytography is 
offensive;the exact specifics -- 10 years or 20 years -- are pretty 
much the same.

Though, on second thought, there is a serious issue with it -- if, as 
we hope, encryption becomes widespread, than anyone doing anything 
will be using it;including 'in the commission of a crime'. This could 
make petty misdemeanors into 20 year federal crimes, and THAT is 
something to worry about. Hm.
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At 7:31 PM -0700 9/24/97, Robert A. Costner wrote:

>In Georgia the presence of a beeper is synonymous with drug sales.  At
>least with law enforcement agencies.  Probationers and parolees are not

In Silicon Valley, the presence of a beeper is synomynous with one being a
technician or someone similar.  To keep the furnaces running, or whatever.
(Real Executives (TM), of course do not carry beepers.)

It appears we live on different planets. Further evidence that not only
should we allow Georgia secede, we should kick them out.

All the more reason for the Bill of Rights to be scrupulously adhered to.

--Tim May

The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Higher Power: 2^1398269     | black markets, collapse of governments.
"National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."

At 07:18 PM 09/24/1997 -0700, Tim May wrote:
>I think it was Bill Stewart who recently described all the various minor
>crimes which will likely soon involve crypto, things like calling for a
>hooker on a phone that has crypto in it, using a Metricom Ricochet wireless
>system to send banned words to a foreigner, and so on. All kinds of minor
>crimes suddenly have 10- and 20-year sentences attached.

I've been using "Jaywalking while talking on a digital cellphone",
but also things like "Cheating on your taxes with PGP on your computer"...
We came up with a bunch more at the recent Cypherpunks meeting.

So many of the extra-penalty laws are bogus; one classic abuse was a guy in 
New York who was charged with "illegal possession of a linoleum knife".
Now, possession of linoleum knives is perfectly legal, even without a
flooring-installer's license.  _This_ knife became illegal when
he allegedly stabbed his girlfriend with it, at which point he could
- keep the knife (illegal possession of a previously non-illegal object)
- get rid of it (illegal obstruction of justice), or
- turn it in at police station (good start on an insanity defense...)


				Thanks!
					Bill
Bill Stewart, stewarts@ix.netcom.com
Regular Key PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639

At 7:18 PM -0700 9/24/97, Tim May wrote:
>The good news today is that if Salomon keeps to his word, the Security and
>Fascism Through Escrow Act is dead, dead, dead.

Even if he doesn't, I don't think Clinton will sign it (in its present,
export enabling, criminal sentence enhancing) form.

The scary thing is that <sarcasm> great lover of the technology industry
and the Bill of Rights </sarcasm) Senator Finestein will pass a bill in
Oxley form through the senate, and the bill that goes to Clinton will be
written in the conference committee.  It's as scary as letting the
congresscritters hold a constitutional convention.

[My spell checker gave me the option of "Replace" for "Finestein".  I was
tempted.]


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