Re: Stronghold

John Young wrote:
> Dimitri, out with Stronghold's fault, if you've got it. C2, cut the
> legal bluff, it stinks. The badmouthing by both of you is the same old
> toxic waste -- and may mean the two of you're are now in cahoots
> to boost each other's shoddy goods and hide the faults behind a
> phony dispute, like 50 years of mock competitive Ameri-Russky
> junk national security communist-capitalist racketeering so beloved
> by die-hard globalist TLAs of business and government.

It is becoming increasingly obvious that John Young is the real
troublemaker here. I wouldn't doubt that it was John who was
behind the original troubles between Vulis and Sameer.
I think that John Young should be forcefully unsubscribed from
the Cypherpunks mailing lists. 

YoungMonger

At 06:46 PM 10/5/97 +0200, Anonymous wrote:
>
>John Young wrote:
>> Dimitri, out with Stronghold's fault, if you've got it. C2, cut the
>> legal bluff, it stinks. The badmouthing by both of you is the same old
>> toxic waste -- and may mean the two of you're are now in cahoots
>> to boost each other's shoddy goods and hide the faults behind a
>> phony dispute, like 50 years of mock competitive Ameri-Russky
>> junk national security communist-capitalist racketeering so beloved
>> by die-hard globalist TLAs of business and government.
>
>It is becoming increasingly obvious that John Young is the real
>troublemaker here. I wouldn't doubt that it was John who was
>behind the original troubles between Vulis and Sameer.
>I think that John Young should be forcefully unsubscribed from
>the Cypherpunks mailing lists. 

That is bullshit!

So far, there have been claims to a backdoor but no actual proof.
Everytime someone asks for said proof, there is a huge amount of handwaving
and misdirection as to why any sort of proof cannot be revealed.  Each time
the excuses get more and more elaborate.  "C2Net will sue us." "We can make
more money if we keep it secret." "It is already well known."

But the excuses get pretty thin after a while without any real proof.

Yes, employees of C2Net have acted in a stupid manner.  But, in my opinion,
you are using that as a smokescreen to avoid having to reveal anything
substantial.  (Because you do not have anything substantial.)

You can point fingers, accuse people of all sorts of things, and make all
the wheeping wailing and knashing of teeth you want.  It still somes down
to the fact that you have shown no hard evidence that such a backdoor exists.

Put up or shut up.

---
|              "That'll make it hot for them!" - Guy Grand               |
|"The moral PGP Diffie taught Zimmermann unites all| Disclaimer:         |
| mankind free in one-key-steganography-privacy!"  | Ignore the man      |
|`finger -l alano@teleport.com` for PGP 2.6.2 key  | behind the keyboard.|
|         http://www.ctrl-alt-del.com/~alan/       |alan@ctrl-alt-del.com|

Alan <alan@ctrl-alt-del.com> writes:
> Everytime someone asks for said proof, there is a huge amount of handwaving
> and misdirection as to why any sort of proof cannot be revealed.  Each time
> the excuses get more and more elaborate.  "C2Net will sue us." "We can make
> more money if we keep it secret." "It is already well known."

Alan, are you still doubting that C2Net's lawyers threatened several people
on this mailing list and demanded that they not publish the "proof"?

They called my home a number of times and served me with some papers.

I'm surprised that JYA hasn't placed the C2Net lawyer letter in his archives.

---

Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM
Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps

nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous) writes:
> It is becoming increasingly obvious that John Young is the real
> troublemaker here. I wouldn't doubt that it was John who was
> behind the original troubles between Vulis and Sameer.

Is it merely a coincidence that "John Young" and "John Gilmore" share
the same first name?

---

Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM
Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps

Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM wrote:
> 
> nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous) writes:
> > It is becoming increasingly obvious that John Young is the real
> > troublemaker here. I wouldn't doubt that it was John who was
> > behind the original troubles between Vulis and Sameer.
> 
> Is it merely a coincidence that "John Young" and "John Gilmore" share
> the same first name?

Dimitri,
  I laughed till I cried, when I read this.

  I hope you were trying to be humorous. If not, then seek psychiatric
help immediately!
  (See if you can get us a group discount, because I have come to 
   believe that the 'moderation experiment' was a clever ruse to
   weed out all of the 'sane' people from the Cypherpunks list.)

Toto
"The Xenix Chainsaw Massacre"
http://bureau42.base.org/public/xenix
"WebWorld & the Mythical Circle of Eunuchs"
http://bureau42.base.org/public/webworld
"InfoWar"
http://bureau42.base.org/public/infowar3
"The Final Frontier"
http://www3.sk.sympatico.ca/carljohn

>   (See if you can get us a group discount, because I have come to 
>    believe that the 'moderation experiment' was a clever ruse to
>    weed out all of the 'sane' people from the Cypherpunks list.)
> 
> Toto

	Didn't work. I'm still here occasionally.