Trademarking CypherSpace???

Sigh.  A company called I-Planet is trying to trademark the term 
"Cypherspace", even though we've been using it for a couple of years
in the cypherpunk community.  They're doing an IPSEC Virtual Private Network,
with friendly HTML administration; http://www.i-planet.com/P2cypherpb.html .
Looks like interesting stuff, and I wish them luck except in TMing the name :-)

I looked on AltaVista and HotBot, and the earliest reference I found
was from a 1994 article by Tim May.  I'd be interested in finding any earlier refs.
There's also a line of comic books using the name, and a Java Applet
from 1996, plus references from I-Planet in late 96 and 97.
Anybody know if the term's been used in print in the dead-tree press?

http://www-swiss.ai.mit.edu/6095/assorted-short-pieces/may-police-state.txt 05-Oct-94
http://www.pi.net/~mvheezik/cypher.html  20-Dec-96
http://infinity.nus.sg/cypherpunks/dir.archive-96.10.17-96.10.23/subject.html 
	pointing to David Lesher's article Alice in Cypherspace
http://www.insitecomp.com/webdev/java/javasites.htm 7-Dec-96 points to "Cypherspace",
	a Java Application on a machine I don't seem to be able to reach right now.

=============================================================
====  FROM http://www2.netcom.com/netcom/cypher.html and also 
====         http://www.i-planet.com/P2cypherpb.html ========

Introducing i-Planet's CypherSpace(tm) 

As part of the i-Planet Solution(tm) product family, CypherSpace(tm) allows a
company to securely link all of its locations together over the Internet by creating a
Virtual Private Network (VPN). This represents an enormous cost savings
especially for multinational organizations. 

=============================================================

				Thanks!
					Bill
Bill Stewart, stewarts@ix.netcom.com
Regular Key PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639

cypherspace.com has been held by an artist in Santa Fe for a long time...

Cheers,
Bob Hettinga

-----------------
Robert Hettinga (rah@shipwright.com), Philodox
e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'
The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/
Ask me about FC98 in Anguilla!: <http://www.fc98.ai/>

At 6:52 PM -0700 10/5/97, Bill Stewart wrote:
>Sigh.  A company called I-Planet is trying to trademark the term
>"Cypherspace", even though we've been using it for a couple of years
>in the cypherpunk community.  They're doing an IPSEC Virtual Private Network,
>with friendly HTML administration; http://www.i-planet.com/P2cypherpb.html .
>Looks like interesting stuff, and I wish them luck except in TMing the
>name :-)
>
>I looked on AltaVista and HotBot, and the earliest reference I found
>was from a 1994 article by Tim May.  I'd be interested in finding any
>earlier refs.
>There's also a line of comic books using the name, and a Java Applet
>from 1996, plus references from I-Planet in late 96 and 97.
>Anybody know if the term's been used in print in the dead-tree press?
>
>http://www-swiss.ai.mit.edu/6095/assorted-short-pieces/may-police-state.txt 05-
>Oct-94


Seems to me I-Planet can't trademark a word which has been in usage by many
of us for several years. What could they do, demand that we stop using a
word we in all likelihood coined? Remove our old writings from the Web?
(How?)

We were using the term "cypherspace" in '93-94, especially in the physical
meetings in Mountain View. I recall first hearing it from Eric Hughes, who
may have gotten it from Jude Milhon, or elsewhere. The context was of a new
slogan:

"In cypherspace no one can read your screen."

(This being a takeoff on the "Aliens" tag line: "In space no one can hear
you scream.")

This usage was probably around mid-1993. I started using it to describe the
obvious thing, the "space" our messages, list, etc. live in.  There are
references in my Cyphernomicon, published in September '94, but written
over the previous 8 months, to cypherspace, as in the section on "Data
Havens," where I wrote: "One of the powerful uses of strong crypto is the
creation of journals, web sites, mailing lists, etc., that are
"untraceable." These are sometimes called "data havens," though that term,
as used by Bruce Sterling in "Islands in the Net" (1988), tends to suggest
specific places like the Cayman Islands that corporations might use to
store data. I prefer the emphasis on "cypherspace.""

I don't know about trademark law, and about whether "prior use" invalidates
an attempted trademark.  It seems unrealistic for them to lay claim to a
word someone else invented.

Certainly if this company gets a trademark, it'd be interesting to repost
some old posts, or make references to the comic book, Java applet, etc.,
and then see if they demanded that history be expunged.

--TIm May

The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Higher Power: 2^2,976,221   | black markets, collapse of governments.
"National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."

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trademarks:

1.  you can not trademark something which is in general use unless you 
    are the general user.

    xerox has made it to the dictionary --it no longer belongs to Xerox 
    unless it is specific.  Kodak almost lost 'Kodak' in the ant-trust
    lawsuit the Berkey (sp?) processing company filed over Kodak's 
    prepaid processing on film.  probably kept it with many extra $$
    in the settlement.


2.  if you are the claimant, you must "protect" the trademark against
    infringers

    I can not think of any losses off hand, but it happens.

3.  a word, in and of itself, can not be trademarked; it must be
    identified with a graphical "image" or conjuring.  CocaCola's
    basic trademark is based on the script lettering, another is the 
    shape of the old bottle, etc.

4.  Asimov, maybe 20 years ago?

any number of other reasons on common usage; they would have been
required to have filed at least prior to CypherNomicon as that is
a substantial work, and well distributed.

it was only a year ago that someone claimed to have been issued
a definitive patent on all means of encryption...  <g> hope springs eternal.

however, it would not hurt to file a complaint with the Patent Office --complaints are free (or they were).

 --
 "When I die, please cast my ashes upon Bill Gates. 
     For once, let him clean up after me! " 
 ______________________________________________________________________
 "attila" 1024/C20B6905/23 D0 FA 7F 6A 8F 60 66 BC AF AE 56 98 C0 D7 B0 

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At 06:52 PM 10/5/97 -0700, Bill Stewart wrote:
>Sigh.  A company called I-Planet is trying to trademark the term 
>"Cypherspace", even though we've been using it for a couple of years
>in the cypherpunk community.  

All this fuss is really not such a big deal, as long as the Patent and
Trademark Office <http://www.uspto.gov> hears about it.  I know nothing
about trademark procedure, but I imagine that a letter (or three) to the
PTO referencing the right application number on it could scotch an
application but quick.  Printing out email and adding a stamp seems almost
sufficient.

Maybe the nice folks at i-planet (I know you're getting this) could just
post their application number and save us the trouble of finding it ourselves?

And I checked:  The fee for a formal _ex parte_ appeal filing is only $100.
 I'm sure the i-planet lawyers will spend far more than that defending one
of those.

Eric

> At 06:52 PM 10/5/97 -0700, Bill Stewart wrote:
> >Sigh.  A company called I-Planet is trying to trademark the term 
> >"Cypherspace", even though we've been using it for a couple of years
> >in the cypherpunk community.  

> All this fuss is really not such a big deal, as long as the Patent and
> Trademark Office <http://www.uspto.gov> hears about it.  I know nothing
> about trademark procedure, but I imagine that a letter (or three) to the
> PTO referencing the right application number on it could scotch an
> application but quick.  Printing out email and adding a stamp seems almost
> sufficient.

	Oh man!  Better think again.  This really feels like Deja Vue.
If you are not familiar with it, take a look at what the Linux community
went through when some clown snuck through a trademark on "Linux".  You
can check out that story at <http://www.ssc.com/linux/trademark/>.  He
lost, but not without some ugly fighting.  Actually, he surrendered the
Trademark to Linus Torvalds in exchange for his original filling fees.
I think Linus, Linux International, SSC, et al decided that would be
cheaper than to continue to litigate, even though the individual in
question was facing possible criminal charges over filing a false PTO
application.

	Don't take it lightly and if you can beat it before the Trademark
is issued, DON'T WAIT!

> Maybe the nice folks at i-planet (I know you're getting this) could just
> post their application number and save us the trouble of finding it ourselves?

> And I checked:  The fee for a formal _ex parte_ appeal filing is only $100.
>  I'm sure the i-planet lawyers will spend far more than that defending one
> of those.

> Eric

	Mike
--
 Michael H. Warfield    |  (770) 985-6132   |  mhw@WittsEnd.com
  (The Mad Wizard)      |  (770) 925-8248   |  http://www.wittsend.com/mhw/
  NIC whois:  MHW9      |  An optimist believes we live in the best of all
 PGP Key: 0xDF1DD471    |  possible worlds.  A pessimist is sure of it!

Bill Stewart wrote:

> Sigh.  A company called I-Planet is trying to trademark the term
> "Cypherspace", even though we've been using it for a couple of years
> in the cypherpunk community.  They're doing an IPSEC Virtual Private
> Network, with friendly HTML administration;
> http://www.i-planet.com/P2cypherpb.html . Looks like interesting stuff,
> and I wish them luck except in TMing the name :-)

What these guys are selling is an embedded unix box with some crypto code
in the kernel, plus socks, sendmail, named, apache, and some fax software
pre-installed, for $5000.  Pretty high price for a 100 mhz FreeBSD box,
tho I suspect they have substantial tech support costs.

I saw no mention of trademark claims for "cypherspace" on their web site.