Freemen and Serfs

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There is a widely held belief that cryptoanarchy is an all or nothing
proposition; that is, the future can be a glorious cryptoanarchy or a
dismal police state.  (I think this is Tim May's analysis, but perhaps
others also contributed.)

It isn't clear to me that these two environments cannot co-exist in a
stable equilibrium.  Historically, in many societies which practiced
slavery, large numbers of people were neither slaves nor slave owners.

Given the naivete of large portions of the population and certain
alarming technologies such as implants which are emerging, it seems
clear that large numbers of people will become little more than cattle
in the near future.  (Incidentally, I do not know that this will be
"Joe Sixpack" and his friends.  Many of those who are "success"
oriented are also most willing to be drug tested, the most reluctant
to question authority, and the least reluctant to be little more than
a cog in the machine.)

In any event, those who perceive their environment and respond
correctly may continue to be free while others will take the other
path.  It's tragic, of course, but perhaps not our problem.  Monty
Cantsin is willing to spend only so much time and effort encouraging
people to protect their privacy.

There's no reason why cypherpunks can't do business with the slavers.
That is, in exchange for various products requiring actual work,
cypherpunks (a.k.a. knowledge workers) can provide technical expertise
and other services.

Once it is clear that enslaving a cypherpunk is expensive, it may be
that the slavers of the world discover they can live with it and that
it may even be a good deal for them.

There might be some turmoil getting to that point, of course.  Many
U.S. citizens have been told they were free, although the ruling elite
tends to see them as chattle.  This difference of opinion will have to
be resolved one way or another.  Hopefully it will be done peacefully.

Perhaps instead of seeing ourselves as "The Sons of Liberty" we should
see ourselves as "The Sons of Tleilax".

Monty Cantsin
Editor in Chief
Smile Magazine
http://www.neoism.org/squares/smile_index.html
http://www.neoism.org/squares/cantsin_10.htm

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At 5:38 PM -0700 11/25/97, Anonymous wrote:

>There is a widely held belief that cryptoanarchy is an all or nothing
>proposition; that is, the future can be a glorious cryptoanarchy or a
>dismal police state.  (I think this is Tim May's analysis, but perhaps
>others also contributed.)

This is a common misunderstanding of what I (and others) have written. In
particular, as just one item of many, I've never predicted that there will
be some kind of overall "anarchy" (as normally understood, even in the
anarcho-capitalist sense). Rather, I have predicted (correctly, so far)
that certain people, certain organizations, certain entities will use the
new "degrees of freedom" in anonymous, pseudonymous, untraceable,
unsurveillable communications systems to bypass laws, mores, and dominant
institutions. As we are seeing every day, more and more.

The effect is to to create an environment without government intrusion.
This is what I call crypto anarchy.

>It isn't clear to me that these two environments cannot co-exist in a
>stable equilibrium.  Historically, in many societies which practiced
>slavery, large numbers of people were neither slaves nor slave owners.

Sure, and I've said the same thing many times. The governments of the world
are cracking down on "illegal thoughts," and illegal vegetables, illegal
defense items, illegal television programs, and on and on. At the same
time, bootleg channels are proliferating, copyright is being skirted, money
laundering is exploding, and on and on.

The crackdown has the effect of making the sheeple even more obedient and
making the adventurers (the wolves?) even bolder. Technology works for
those who use it.

Very Nietzscheian.


--Tim May

The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Higher Power: 2^2,976,221   | black markets, collapse of governments.
"National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."

On Sun, 30 Nov 1997, Tim May wrote:
> 
> Sure, and I've said the same thing many times. The governments of the world
> are cracking down on "illegal thoughts," and illegal vegetables, illegal
> defense items, illegal television programs, and on and on. At the same
> time, bootleg channels are proliferating, copyright is being skirted, money
> laundering is exploding, and on and on.

I am told that the recent criminalization of warez has led to a rush on
crypto by the warez crowd. A certain Internet juke box I am aware of and
which is serving months worth of uninterupted MP3's just might add SSL
with client certs. 
 
> The crackdown has the effect of making the sheeple even more obedient and
> making the adventurers (the wolves?) even bolder. Technology works for
> those who use it.
> 
> Very Nietzscheian.

Futhermore, if using crypto gets you the gas chamber and putting a
bullet through the head of a fed gets you the gas chamber, it stands  to
reason that more otherwise benign crypto users will be willing to put
bullets through the heads of feds. See the war on illegal vegetables.

-- Lucky Green <shamrock@cypherpunks.to> PGP v5 encrypted email preferred.
   "Tonga? Where the hell is Tonga? They have Cypherpunks there?"

At 11:36 AM 11/30/1997 -0700, Tim May wrote:
>And look for "copyright violators" to be sold to the public as a Fifth
>Horsemen. It may be a tough sell, claiming that those who sell CD-ROMs of
>Microsoft Office in Bangkok for $10 are on a par with nuclear terrorists,

It's not a tough sell at all, just a different sell.
Rather than terrorizing businesses about NuclearNarcoPornoChildTerrorists,
you encourage them into supporting Insured Key Management Hierarchies and
Subpoenable Encryption, giving them protection against Intellectual 
Property Bandits at the minor cost of their own security,
so _they_ won't get in the way of terrorizing the public,
because they've got their business cases covered.
				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, stewarts@ix.netcom.com
Regular Key PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639

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At 11:36 AM 11/30/97 -0700, Tim May wrote:
>(I was chatting with a guy yesterday about a Steyr SSG sniper rifle I've
>had my eyes on. With a Kahles scope and match grade ammo, it's been shown
>to produce 9-inch groups at 1000 yards...just the thing for reaching out
>and touching someone. It turned out, after we'd talked for a while that
>he's with the SWAT team for one of the local major counties. He
understands
>full well that many of those he may be called to go up against are
>equipping themselves with the most advanced countersniping weaponry
>available to anyone. )

What round does this thing fire?  .223 Rem, .270 Win, .30-06, or .22LR
(Just kidding!)?
BTW, what kind of groups can I expect to get from a MAK-90?

>As Lucky and others have noted, if the sentence for drug- or gun-dealing
is
>death, as it is in more and more countries (when bribery fails, of
course),
>then law enforcement will increasingly lead to Waco-type
>standoffs...military firefights.

Sounds like "If I'm dead anyway, I might as well take as many as I can with
me."  God help us if we ever come to that, because it would be ugly.

>If this be war, unleash the dogs of war, or make the most of it, or
however
>that line goes.

"If this be treason, let us make the most of it." -- Patrick Henry
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Jonathan Wienke

PGP Key Fingerprints:
7484 2FB7 7588 ACD1  3A8F 778A 7407 2928
3312 6597 8258 9A9E D9FA  4878 C245 D245 EAA7 0DCC

"If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude
greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace.
We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that
feeds you. May your chains set lightly upon you; and may posterity forget
that ye were our countrymen."
-- Samuel Adams

"Stupidity is the one arena of of human achievement where most people
fulfill their potential."
-- Jonathan Wienke

Never sign a contract that contains the phrase "first-born child."

RSA export-o-matic:
print pack"C*",split/\D+/,`echo "16iII*o\U@{$/=$z;[(pop,pop,unpack"H*",<>
)]}\EsMsKsN0[lN*1lK[d2%Sa2/d0<X+d*lMLa^*lN%0]dsXx++lMlN/dsM0<J]dsJxp"|dc`

At 12:10 PM -0700 11/30/97, Lucky Green wrote:
>On Sun, 30 Nov 1997, Tim May wrote:
>>
>> Sure, and I've said the same thing many times. The governments of the world
>> are cracking down on "illegal thoughts," and illegal vegetables, illegal
>> defense items, illegal television programs, and on and on. At the same
>> time, bootleg channels are proliferating, copyright is being skirted, money
>> laundering is exploding, and on and on.
>
>I am told that the recent criminalization of warez has led to a rush on
>crypto by the warez crowd. A certain Internet juke box I am aware of and
>which is serving months worth of uninterupted MP3's just might add SSL
>with client certs.

And look for "copyright violators" to be sold to the public as a Fifth
Horsemen. It may be a tough sell, claiming that those who sell CD-ROMs of
Microsoft Office in Bangkok for $10 are on a par with nuclear terrorists,
but the drumbeats of the WIPO (I think it is called), the OECD, the GATT,
Software Publishers Association, etc., and  concerned interest by Clinton
and Magaziner and the rest of the Gang of the West (sorry for drifting into
Youngspeak here) will cause more crackdowns. After all, if the SPA can
initiate uninvited visits on corporations to look for unregistered copies
of WordPerfect, surely the SPA/GATT/WIPO can order raids on C2Net for
selling "unbreakable crypto" to "software pirates"?

(Cynics might see increased enforcment of Microsoft's claimed property
rights as part of the quid pro quo in the deal they eventually cut with the
Justice Department, the consent decree MS enters into AND the consent
decree Justice secretly enteres into. Such things are hardly new...it's how
the New World Order Military-Industrial Complex has _always_ conducted
business. Pressure is applied, deals are negotiated, and Cabinet officials
become senior corporate officers after leaving the Beltway Swamp...and they
don't even leave the swamp itself, except in title. )

>> The crackdown has the effect of making the sheeple even more obedient and
>> making the adventurers (the wolves?) even bolder. Technology works for
>> those who use it.
>>
>> Very Nietzscheian.
>
>Futhermore, if using crypto gets you the gas chamber and putting a
>bullet through the head of a fed gets you the gas chamber, it stands  to
>reason that more otherwise benign crypto users will be willing to put
>bullets through the heads of feds. See the war on illegal vegetables.

Yep. Some of the cops I encounter at the range and elsewhere are _very_
nervous about the War on Nearly Everything that is going on. They
understand that making more and more things felonies, and mandatory
sentencing guidelines, is turning law enforcement increasingly into a
military situation. Like Chicago during the height of Prohibition, where
the Thompson submachine gun gained fame...and for unsurprisingly similar
reasons....

Cops see the "other side" as having little to lose by responding in kind
with firefights.

(I was chatting with a guy yesterday about a Steyr SSG sniper rifle I've
had my eyes on. With a Kahles scope and match grade ammo, it's been shown
to produce 9-inch groups at 1000 yards...just the thing for reaching out
and touching someone. It turned out, after we'd talked for a while that
he's with the SWAT team for one of the local major counties. He understands
full well that many of those he may be called to go up against are
equipping themselves with the most advanced countersniping weaponry
available to anyone. )

As Lucky and others have noted, if the sentence for drug- or gun-dealing is
death, as it is in more and more countries (when bribery fails, of course),
then law enforcement will increasingly lead to Waco-type
standoffs...military firefights.

If this be war, unleash the dogs of war, or make the most of it, or however
that line goes.

--Tim May

The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Higher Power: 2^2,976,221   | black markets, collapse of governments.
"National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."