Why Jodi Hoffman.....makes more sense than you think.

From: Lizard <lizard@mrlizard.com>:
>
>So, allying yourself with people who would gladly force *your* childen to pray to *their* God doesn't bother you in the least. Fascinating.
===========
Interesting that you should mention this.  I, like many other Jews, have 
finally noticed something about Christians....
Seems they're actually _more_ Jewish than Jews.  At least they
(Christians) try to follow the Ten Commandments, which is a hell of a
lot more than I can say for most every Jew I've ever known.  Most
Jews, other than Orthodox, self-identify as atheists and don't even know
how to conduct a Passover service!  Unless you're Orthodox, being Jewish
is a joke.  IMHO, claiming to be a Reform or Conservative Jew is the
same as being "kind of" pregnant.

(bracing for fresh onslaught of anti-Semetic spears to be chucked)
-- 
Jodi Hoffman   R.A.M.P.  http://www.gocin.com/ramp    
Victimization of Children/Research & Education Council of America
1304 SW 160th Avenue, Suite 122  Weston, Florida 33326
Phone: (954) 349-0366   Fax: (954) 349-0361

At 09:23 AM 11/5/97 -0500, Jodi Hoffman wrote:
>From: Lizard <lizard@mrlizard.com>:
>>
>>So, allying yourself with people who would gladly force *your* childen to
pray to *their* God doesn't bother you in the least. Fascinating.
>===========
>Interesting that you should mention this.  I, like many other Jews, have 
>finally noticed something about Christians....
>Seems they're actually _more_ Jewish than Jews.  At least they
>(Christians) try to follow the Ten Commandments,

But they've got the Sabbath on the wrong day. :)
And they certainly worship power more than they worship God, which is a
violation of #1.

 which is a hell of a
>lot more than I can say for most every Jew I've ever known.  Most
>Jews, other than Orthodox, self-identify as atheists and don't even know
>how to conduct a Passover service! 

You follow the step-by-step instructions in the little blue Maxwell House
book with all the Hebrew words transliterarted into english syllables. Duh!

 Unless you're Orthodox, being Jewish
>is a joke.  IMHO, claiming to be a Reform or Conservative Jew is the
>same as being "kind of" pregnant.
>
So, you're saying my formerly Greek Orthodox friend who converted to
Judaism (and who I call up when I need to remember what holiday is what
'cause she knows this stuff better than me) and goes to the only synagogue
in New York with a lesbian Rabbi isn't a good Jew? Or, for that matter, my
entire family? (Concervative Jews, except for my Uncle who got 'born again'
and is now a minister in Virginia or something. But he produced ample
grandchildren, so he was forgiven.)

>(bracing for fresh onslaught of anti-Semetic spears to be chucked)

Given the dominant number of Red Sea Pedestrians on this list, I doubt most
of the comments can be classed as anti-semetic. Anti-Jodi, perhaps -- but
unlike the Jews, you've earned every barb tossed at you.

At 09:23 AM 11/5/97 -0500, Jodi Hoffman wrote:
>From: Lizard <lizard@mrlizard.com>:
>>
>>So, allying yourself with people who would gladly force *your* childen to
pray to *their* God doesn't bother you in the least. Fascinating.
>===========
>Interesting that you should mention this.  I, like many other Jews, have 
>finally noticed something about Christians....
>Seems they're actually _more_ Jewish than Jews.  At least they
>(Christians) try to follow the Ten Commandments, which is a hell of a
>lot more than I can say for most every Jew I've ever known.  Most
>Jews, other than Orthodox, self-identify as atheists and don't even know
>how to conduct a Passover service!  Unless you're Orthodox, being Jewish
>is a joke.  IMHO, claiming to be a Reform or Conservative Jew is the
>same as being "kind of" pregnant.
>
>(bracing for fresh onslaught of anti-Semetic spears to be chucked)
	Does that mean you expect others to say anti-semitic stuff or claim that
you are being anti-semitic.  I would go with the latter.  Are you orthodox?
 If not, what right do you have to bash conservative or reform jews?  If
you are, please tell your friends in Israel that those of us with families
who survived the death camps do not look kindly on their reinvention of
fascism.  It is all well and good to love the group you come from, but
especially if you are jewish, pay attention to history.  Have we not been
persecuted throughout history, how dare we, now that we have some measure
of power, go on to persecue others?  Think before you write please.
	On your other point, christians routinely break the _important_
commandments.  (the first two)  Go to any church and you will see no end to
the idols they set up to their various saints, gods, etc.  And they pray to
whatever saint they want, or mary, or jesus (a mere messenger, even if the
son of god, he ain't god) or whoever they feel like.  Whatever happenned to
'Thou shalt have no gods before me!'  


                             -Colin

On Wed, 5 Nov 1997, Colin A. Reed wrote:
> At 09:23 AM 11/5/97 -0500, Jodi Hoffman wrote:
> >Interesting that you should mention this.  I, like many other Jews, have 
> >finally noticed something about Christians....
> >Seems they're actually _more_ Jewish than Jews.  At least they
> >(Christians) try to follow the Ten Commandments, which is a hell of a
> >lot more than I can say for most every Jew I've ever known.  Most
> >Jews, other than Orthodox, self-identify as atheists and don't even know
> >how to conduct a Passover service!  Unless you're Orthodox, being Jewish
> >is a joke.  IMHO, claiming to be a Reform or Conservative Jew is the
> >same as being "kind of" pregnant.
> >
> >(bracing for fresh onslaught of anti-Semetic spears to be chucked)
> 	Does that mean you expect others to say anti-semitic stuff or claim that
> you are being anti-semitic.  I would go with the latter.  Are you orthodox?
>  If not, what right do you have to bash conservative or reform jews?  If
> you are, please tell your friends in Israel that those of us with families
> who survived the death camps do not look kindly on their reinvention of
> fascism.  It is all well and good to love the group you come from, but
> especially if you are jewish, pay attention to history.  Have we not been
> persecuted throughout history, how dare we, now that we have some measure
> of power, go on to persecue others?  Think before you write please.
> 	On your other point, christians routinely break the _important_
> commandments.  (the first two)  Go to any church and you will see no end to
> the idols they set up to their various saints, gods, etc.  And they pray to
> whatever saint they want, or mary, or jesus (a mere messenger, even if the
> son of god, he ain't god) or whoever they feel like.  Whatever happenned to
> 'Thou shalt have no gods before me!'  
> 

Well, Colin.  The idols you spoke of are simply transmogrified versions
of Adonis and Demeter from Roman paganism.  (I assume youre referring to
the Roman Catholic Church).

Having been a Roman Catholic and for some twenty years been an ex-catholic
I've spent years research the apparent transition from a Roman Senate/
Emperor dominated world to a Roman PaganJudeoChristian dominated world.
(at least until the reformation took hold).

Then England dominated the seas which was just an extension of the
Roman power center.

To some degree that is why the founding fathers were so adamant about
separation of church and state.  The last thing they wanted was another
theocracy to graft itself onto their new creation.

Of course, given the vagaries of entropy, the state eventually became
their religion.

Be careful what you wish for.  You may get it.

jim burnes

Jodi Hoffman wrote:

>From: Lizard <lizard@mrlizard.com>:
>>
>>So, allying yourself with people who would gladly force *your* childen to pray to *their* God doesn't bother you in the least. Fascinating.

>(bracing for fresh onslaught of anti-Semetic spears to be chucked)

Lizard's a Semite. Could you cite examples of "anti-Semetic spears"?

Paul

The final elegance, not to console
Nor sanctify, but plainly to propound.

At 02:23 PM 11/5/97 +0000, Jodi Hoffman wrote:
>From: Lizard <lizard@mrlizard.com>:
>>
>>So, allying yourself with people who would gladly force *your* childen to
pray to *their* God doesn't bother you in the least. Fascinating.
>===========
>Interesting that you should mention this.  I, like many other Jews, have 
>finally noticed something about Christians....
>Seems they're actually _more_ Jewish than Jews.  At least they
>(Christians) try to follow the Ten Commandments, which is a hell of a
>lot more than I can say for most every Jew I've ever known.  Most
>Jews, other than Orthodox, self-identify as atheists and don't even know
>how to conduct a Passover service!  Unless you're Orthodox, being Jewish
>is a joke.  IMHO, claiming to be a Reform or Conservative Jew is the
>same as being "kind of" pregnant.
>
>(bracing for fresh onslaught of anti-Semetic spears to be chucked)

The spears I would chuck would be anti-ignorance, not anti-Sem*i*tic
(spelling counts).

But I won't chuck them, because I have suddenly seen the light that the
religion I have practiced for almost half a century is a joke.  And I've
also just been enlightened that all of the members of my shul are jokes
too.  Damn, I've just come to realize that even my Rabbi is a joke.  (Well,
you may have a point there -- he is pretty funny.)  I'd like to go ask my
grandparents about this, but, alas, I can't.  See, 3/4 of them never quite
made it out of the camps alive.  So in their absense, I am ever so grateful
that you have chosen to explain my life to me.

I do have a question, though -- actually, two.

First, are you Orthodox?  I would not dream of presuming about you, even
though you seem to know all about me.

Second, do you believe that there is only one true flavor of Christianity,
or are you more tolerant of your Christian friends?  If there is only one
true Christianity, btw, please be so kind as let the world know what it is.

-Jim, the kind of pregnant conservative Jew, who knows full well how to
lead a Seder.