This judge needs killing

Uk News:

Judge David Selwood today sentenced 3 writers for the magazine "Green 
Anarchist" to 3 years imprisonment each for their articles in the 
magazine which he concluded incited others to break the law.
The magazine contained diaries for the previous months animal rights 
activism events and contained articles generally favourable to the cause 
of animal liberation.

Another judge who has richly earned the death penalty.

        Datacomms Technologies data security
       Paul Bradley, Paul@fatmans.demon.co.uk
  Paul@crypto.uk.eu.org, Paul@cryptography.uk.eu.org    
       Http://www.cryptography.home.ml.org/
      Email for PGP public key, ID: FC76DA85
     "Don`t forget to mount a scratch monkey"

At 11:39 AM -0700 11/13/97, Paul Bradley wrote:
>Uk News:
>
>Judge David Selwood today sentenced 3 writers for the magazine "Green
>Anarchist" to 3 years imprisonment each for their articles in the
>magazine which he concluded incited others to break the law.
>The magazine contained diaries for the previous months animal rights
>activism events and contained articles generally favourable to the cause
>of animal liberation.
>
>Another judge who has richly earned the death penalty.

This stifling of free speech, by both state and corporate interests, is a
trend spreadingl like wildfire in the Western world.

Libel, slander, defamation, damage, incitement, sedition, and obscenity
cases are squelching free speech. Publishers are held liable for the words
of others, and even distributors are held liable.

Even here on Cypherpunks we see toadies like Bob Hettinga fretting that our
words are going too far, that we must learn to police ourselves or the
police will be forced to do so.

(Hey, if the Paladin case withstands Supreme Court scrutiny and his upheld,
look for the Cypherpunks list node distributors to face criminal charges.)

--Tim May

The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Higher Power: 2^2,976,221   | black markets, collapse of governments.
"National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."

At 7:38 AM -0700 11/16/97, William H. Geiger III wrote:

>If anyone here needs a real world example of how fear and intimidation
>have a stifling effect on free speech all one has to do is look at the
>abandoned British subjects in Hong Kong (truly a dark day in this history
>of UK). While China has done nothing yet to clamp down on speech in Hong
>Kong self censorship is rampet their for fear of what they "might" do.

William Burroughs warned of "the policeman inside."

(A variation of my "Big Brother Inside" logo might be "Policeman Inside."
Perhaps as many as one in ten thousand might catch the Burroughs reference.)

As Bob Hettinga, Kent Crispin, and other policemen inside are warning, if
we don't censor ourselves, if we don't narc out others, the real police
will have to do it for us. Welcome to the New World Order.

Of course, an alternative is to say "Fuck you" to those who want us to shut
up, to deploy more unbreakable crypto, to encourage more armed militias to
spring up, to destabilize the regimes in Hong Kong, Japan, and India, and
to "Just Say No" to backdoors in PGP and other crypto products. Bring on
crypto anarchy.

--Tim May

The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Higher Power: 2^2,976,221   | black markets, collapse of governments.
"National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."

Tim May <tcmay@got.net> writes:
> up, to deploy more unbreakable crypto, to encourage more armed militias to
> spring up, to destabilize the regimes in Hong Kong, Japan, and India, and

And the U.S. too.  Death to the fascists!  Nuke Washington, DC!!!!1!1!

---

Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM
Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps

I don't censor myself when I say that some things - especially violence -
are evil, and perhaps even criminal, and don't support the use of
technology to promote them.  I happen to believe this.  Saying that
self-censorship is dishonorable presupposes a belief, even a hypocritical
one, in honor.  When one advocates anarchy, it is hard to compose a
meaningful insult.  When there are no rules, you cannot violate one.

There also has been no attempt to prove that being "governed" by a bunch
of unregulated militias would be better than what we have now.  If anyone
wants to encourage the destruction of our society and culture, they can do
so, but it will result in a new dark age whether it is desired or not -
people aren't going to be designing computers when all the power plants
and telecommunications are cut, and no raw materials can move.  All this
crypto techonology requires an infrastructure - it doesn't work with slide
rules and carrier pidgeons.

There are some very thoughtful people who are defending liberty, and there
are some crazed people who I would fear in proportion to their firepower
since they seem to lack self-control or even intelligence (McVeigh managed
to miss those who I would assume to be his targets - the ATF and FBI
agents).  I don't think it is wise to associate with people who like
violence for the sake of violence with things like ideals being just an
excuse to commit heinous crimes.  I say that I am not part of any such
group, although many would like to lump anyone advocating the reduction of
government power with the rabid-right.

I recognize that the FBI, etc. are becoming like the KGB - something which
I consider to be an evil.  The last thing I want to do is imitiate them by
wishing for the death and injury of innocents in furtherance of my causes
- that is the method of our current government.  While I suggest that
crimes are still crimes when committed by government, others seem to take
government criminality as an excuse to advocate serious crimes on their
part (or encourage other anonymous people to do).

If the response to Waco and Ruby Ridge is to descend to the level of those
in the government who committed the crimes, then there is no moral
difference between any such person and Horiuchi.  They simply aim at a
different set of targets.  Maybe the Cypherpunk-militia can kill more
innocent people than the FBI and ATF.  But would that be a victory?  Is it
a gain to liberty to randomly kill people? 

I will tell anyone who says "I want to hurt and kill innocent people" that
they are wrong.  If I am fighting for anything, it is for human rights.
And I will challenge anyone who advocates the abridgement of those rights,
even if they happen to agree with my views that cryptography enables the
exercise of those rights.

I believe in the extensive use of crypto because I believe in human
rights, not because it can be used to abridge those rights.  Those who use
crypto to help commit acts of terrorism and those who use it to enslave
citizens are on the same side.

--- reply to tzeruch - at - ceddec - dot - com ---

On Tue, Nov 25, 1997 at 06:15:56PM -0500, nospam-seesignature@ceddec.com wrote:
> I don't censor myself when I say that some things - especially violence -
> are evil, and perhaps even criminal, and don't support the use of
> technology to promote them.  I happen to believe this.  Saying that
> self-censorship is dishonorable presupposes a belief, even a hypocritical
> one, in honor.  When one advocates anarchy, it is hard to compose a
> meaningful insult.  When there are no rules, you cannot violate one.

However, the "anarchy" in cryptoanarchy is quite structured.  (I was
quite seriously criticized for using a dictionary definition of
anarchy, you may recall...) If there were *no* rules, then murder is
OK, and ownership means nothing.  Furthermore, cryptoanarchy requires
the sanctity of contracts, which implies a whole bunch. 

The whole notion of "the policeman inside" is stupid sloganeering.  Of
*course* we have a policeman inside -- we have something that tells us
(at least some of us) that murder, theft, and dishonesty are 
behaviors to be avoided.  We have something that tells us (some of us) 
it would be foolish to make a habit of running red lights.

> There also has been no attempt to prove that being "governed" by a bunch
> of unregulated militias would be better than what we have now.  If anyone
> wants to encourage the destruction of our society and culture, they can do
> so, but it will result in a new dark age whether it is desired or not -
> people aren't going to be designing computers when all the power plants
> and telecommunications are cut, and no raw materials can move.  All this
> crypto techonology requires an infrastructure - it doesn't work with slide
> rules and carrier pidgeons.
> 
> There are some very thoughtful people who are defending liberty, and there
> are some crazed people who I would fear in proportion to their firepower
> since they seem to lack self-control or even intelligence (McVeigh managed
> to miss those who I would assume to be his targets - the ATF and FBI
> agents).  I don't think it is wise to associate with people who like
> violence for the sake of violence with things like ideals being just an
> excuse to commit heinous crimes.  I say that I am not part of any such
> group, although many would like to lump anyone advocating the reduction of
> government power with the rabid-right.
> 
> I recognize that the FBI, etc. are becoming like the KGB - something which
> I consider to be an evil.  The last thing I want to do is imitiate them by
> wishing for the death and injury of innocents in furtherance of my causes
> - that is the method of our current government.  While I suggest that
> crimes are still crimes when committed by government, others seem to take
> government criminality as an excuse to advocate serious crimes on their
> part (or encourage other anonymous people to do).
> 
> If the response to Waco and Ruby Ridge is to descend to the level of those
> in the government who committed the crimes, then there is no moral
> difference between any such person and Horiuchi.  They simply aim at a
> different set of targets.  Maybe the Cypherpunk-militia can kill more
> innocent people than the FBI and ATF.  But would that be a victory?  Is it
> a gain to liberty to randomly kill people? 
> 
> I will tell anyone who says "I want to hurt and kill innocent people" that
> they are wrong.  If I am fighting for anything, it is for human rights.
> And I will challenge anyone who advocates the abridgement of those rights,
> even if they happen to agree with my views that cryptography enables the
> exercise of those rights.
> 
> I believe in the extensive use of crypto because I believe in human
> rights, not because it can be used to abridge those rights.  Those who use
> crypto to help commit acts of terrorism and those who use it to enslave
> citizens are on the same side.

Yep.  Actually,  I agree with every single thing you said, 
interestingly enough.

-- 
Kent Crispin				"No reason to get excited",
kent@songbird.com			the thief he kindly spoke...
PGP fingerprint:   B1 8B 72 ED 55 21 5E 44  61 F4 58 0F 72 10 65 55
http://songbird.com/kent/pgp_key.html

On Sun, Nov 16, 1997 at 09:03:50AM -0700, Tim "Ad Hominem" May wrote:
[...]
> As Bob Hettinga, Kent Crispin, and other policemen inside are warning, if
> we don't censor ourselves, if we don't narc out others, the real police
> will have to do it for us. Welcome to the New World Order.

You're of the "courtesy == censorship" school, clearly.

> Of course, an alternative is to say "Fuck you" to those who want us to shut
> up,

Apparently the only alternative that you understand.

> to deploy more unbreakable crypto, to encourage more armed militias to
> spring up, to destabilize the regimes in Hong Kong, Japan, and India, and
> to "Just Say No" to backdoors in PGP and other crypto products. Bring on
> crypto anarchy.

Yeah, yeah.  You won't live to see it, Tim.

-- 
Kent Crispin				"No reason to get excited",
kent@songbird.com			the thief he kindly spoke...
PGP fingerprint:   B1 8B 72 ED 55 21 5E 44  61 F4 58 0F 72 10 65 55
http://songbird.com/kent/pgp_key.html

Tim May <tcmay@got.net> writes:
> Even here on Cypherpunks we see toadies like Bob Hettinga fretting that our
> words are going too far, that we must learn to police ourselves or the
> police will be forced to do so.

Don't forget C2Net emplpoyess "Lucky Green" and Greg Broils spreading lies
about their employer's censorship.

---

Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM
Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps

At 9:26 PM -0700 11/14/97, Igor Chudov @ home wrote:
>Tim May wrote:
>> (Hey, if the Paladin case withstands Supreme Court scrutiny and his upheld,
>> look for the Cypherpunks list node distributors to face criminal charges.)
>
>I do not think that it is entirely impossible either, but the likely
>scenario is that the government may first try to harass us and attempt
>the criminal charges only after some time.
>
>In any case, the present structure of cypherpunks list is entirely
>unacceptable. We have only three working nodes. This is bad since all
>of these nodes reside in the US and can be taken out easily.
>
>Besides government raids, we are all too susceptible on things like
>internet providers kicking us out, hard drives failing, and so on.
>Theree nodes is not a good redundancy.
>
>I plead foreign cypherpunks to at least establish backup nodes that could
>be turned on should anything happen to the US-based ones.

I said this several years ago and I'll say it again: the Usenet is already
set up for multinational, distributed, essentially uncensorable
communication.

I used to try to copy many of my posts to alt.cypherpunks shortly after it
was created, right after the the Great February End of Toad.com, but in
recent months I haven'te bothered (mainly because no interesting
communication was occurring in the alt.cypherpunks arena).

One need only look to Usenet for a robust, automatically (and
automagically) distributed system.

--Tim May


The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Higher Power: 2^2,976,221   | black markets, collapse of governments.
"National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."

Timothy C. May writes:

> One need only look to Usenet for a robust, automatically (and
> automagically) distributed system.

Usenet is horribly unreliable, alt and obscure newsgroups doubly so. 

Usenet is also slow.  Posts can take days to schlep their way across
servers.

A mailing list or web-based Cypherpunks, gated to and from a newsgroup,
might be an acceptable compromise.  That way we could still chat in
something resembling real time, with the newsgroup to fall back upon in
case SWAT teams took out all the list servers.

Of course, a newsgroup any moron could access from AOL without having to
"subscrive" would probably attract additional trolls and spam. 

-- 
Eric Michael Cordian 0+
O:.T:.O:. Mathematical Munitions Division
"Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law"

Tim May wrote:
> At 9:26 PM -0700 11/14/97, Igor Chudov @ home wrote:
> >Tim May wrote:
> >> (Hey, if the Paladin case withstands Supreme Court scrutiny and his upheld,
> >> look for the Cypherpunks list node distributors to face criminal charges.)
> >
> >I do not think that it is entirely impossible either, but the likely
> >scenario is that the government may first try to harass us and attempt
> >the criminal charges only after some time.
> >
> >In any case, the present structure of cypherpunks list is entirely
> >unacceptable. We have only three working nodes. This is bad since all
> >of these nodes reside in the US and can be taken out easily.
> >
> >Besides government raids, we are all too susceptible on things like
> >internet providers kicking us out, hard drives failing, and so on.
> >Theree nodes is not a good redundancy.
> >
> >I plead foreign cypherpunks to at least establish backup nodes that could
> >be turned on should anything happen to the US-based ones.
> 
> I said this several years ago and I'll say it again: the Usenet is already
> set up for multinational, distributed, essentially uncensorable
> communication.
> 
> I used to try to copy many of my posts to alt.cypherpunks shortly after it
> was created, right after the the Great February End of Toad.com, but in
> recent months I haven'te bothered (mainly because no interesting
> communication was occurring in the alt.cypherpunks arena).
> 
> One need only look to Usenet for a robust, automatically (and
> automagically) distributed system.

You are right, USENET is a good medium.

If cypherpunks list ever gets seriously harassed by authorities, migrating
to a USENET newsgroup makes sense. At the same time, since a lot of people
actually prefer the list as the cypherpunks medium, it would be "nice" to
keep it working the way it is now if it is possible at all. 

The more likely scenario than gummint harassment, at least right now,
is a technical failure of one or two nodes. Adding more redundancy would
keep the list that we like more stable.

	- Igor.

Tim May wrote:
> (Hey, if the Paladin case withstands Supreme Court scrutiny and his upheld,
> look for the Cypherpunks list node distributors to face criminal charges.)

I do not think that it is entirely impossible either, but the likely
scenario is that the government may first try to harass us and attempt
the criminal charges only after some time.

In any case, the present structure of cypherpunks list is entirely
unacceptable. We have only three working nodes. This is bad since all
of these nodes reside in the US and can be taken out easily.

Besides government raids, we are all too susceptible on things like 
internet providers kicking us out, hard drives failing, and so on.
Theree nodes is not a good redundancy.

I plead foreign cypherpunks to at least establish backup nodes that could
be turned on should anything happen to the US-based ones.

	- Igor.

> >Another judge who has richly earned the death penalty.
> 
> This stifling of free speech, by both state and corporate interests, is a
> trend spreadingl like wildfire in the Western world.

Indeed, it is more and more the case that I see opinions in officials and 
members of the public that would be comically stupid, if they did not 
infringe so far on the rights of others. There are many reasons for this, 
mostly rooted in the controlled media, education as well, to choose any 
old example, the use in schools of the word "wrong" to mean "illegal" 
restricts the vocabulary of children in such a way as to encourage the 
synonymity of the two words, eg. If the govt. says it`s wrong it is wrong, 
regardless of the ethical arguments. Even seemingly intelligent adults 
fail to make the distinction between legality/illegality and right/wrong.
I may be ranting here, but whenever I get into discussion about this I am 
reminded of the stubborn behaviour of many acquaintances of mine, even some 
fairly intelligent family members who, given the chance, would restrict 
the speech of others to what was deemed "appropriate", this in turn leaves 
me ranting and frustrated because I cannot get away with putting these 
people up against a wall and taking the appropriate action with a .45,
which, I can assure you, would relieve a great deal of stress.

> Libel, slander, defamation, damage, incitement, sedition, and obscenity
> cases are squelching free speech. Publishers are held liable for the words
> of others, and even distributors are held liable.

Indeed, Libel is merely an official way of recovering losses incurred due 
to the stupidity of the general public, if I publish a defamatory and 
unpleasant story about Tim in a newsgroup, he can sue me because of the 
damage done to his reputation, of course, only stupid members of the 
public believe unfounded and referenceless (is that a real word???? ;-)) 
defamatory stories about others, and the more people that believe a 
story, the higher the compensation required, hence, it can be shown that 
the relative size of libel case settlements is inversely proportional to 
the average IQ of the general public ;-)....

> (Hey, if the Paladin case withstands Supreme Court scrutiny and his upheld,
> look for the Cypherpunks list node distributors to face criminal charges.)

Looks like it`s about time I set up majordomo on my other acct and 
started running a node, lets see what UK law has to say.

        Datacomms Technologies data security
       Paul Bradley, Paul@fatmans.demon.co.uk
  Paul@crypto.uk.eu.org, Paul@cryptography.uk.eu.org    
       Http://www.cryptography.home.ml.org/
      Email for PGP public key, ID: FC76DA85
     "Don`t forget to mount a scratch monkey"

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

In <v0310280bb092291ceb73@[207.167.93.63]>, on 11/14/97 
   at 09:18 AM, Tim May <tcmay@got.net> said:

>At 11:39 AM -0700 11/13/97, Paul Bradley wrote:
>>Uk News:
>>
>>Judge David Selwood today sentenced 3 writers for the magazine "Green
>>Anarchist" to 3 years imprisonment each for their articles in the
>>magazine which he concluded incited others to break the law.
>>The magazine contained diaries for the previous months animal rights
>>activism events and contained articles generally favourable to the cause
>>of animal liberation.
>>
>>Another judge who has richly earned the death penalty.

>This stifling of free speech, by both state and corporate interests, is a
>trend spreadingl like wildfire in the Western world.

>Libel, slander, defamation, damage, incitement, sedition, and obscenity
>cases are squelching free speech. Publishers are held liable for the
>words of others, and even distributors are held liable.

>Even here on Cypherpunks we see toadies like Bob Hettinga fretting that
>our words are going too far, that we must learn to police ourselves or
>the police will be forced to do so.

>(Hey, if the Paladin case withstands Supreme Court scrutiny and his
>upheld, look for the Cypherpunks list node distributors to face criminal
>charges.)

If anyone here needs a real world example of how fear and intimidation
have a stifling effect on free speech all one has to do is look at the
abandoned British subjects in Hong Kong (truly a dark day in this history
of UK). While China has done nothing yet to clamp down on speech in Hong
Kong self censorship is rampet their for fear of what they "might" do.


- -- 
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
William H. Geiger III  http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii
Geiger Consulting    Cooking With Warp 4.0

Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice
PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail.
OS/2 PGP 2.6.3a at: http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii/pgpmr2.html                        
- ---------------------------------------------------------------

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At 10:26 PM 11/14/1997 -0600, Igor Chudov @ home wrote:
>I do not think that it is entirely impossible either, but the likely
>scenario is that the government may first try to harass us and attempt
>the criminal charges only after some time.
>
>In any case, the present structure of cypherpunks list is entirely
>unacceptable. We have only three working nodes. This is bad since all
>of these nodes reside in the US and can be taken out easily.

Cypherpunks-e@htp.com is in Japan, though I don't know if it only gets feeds
off of ssz or also off algebra and cyberpass.  And the archive's in Singapore.
Also, there are a bunch of Usenet mirrors, mostly local newsgroups.

Just to balance Singapore, it'd be nice to have an archive in Amsterdam :-)
Or in Virtual Tonga, or Niue.   Then there's the mirror at Ft. Meade :-)

At some point, though, it's difficult not to have reinvented Usenet.
Tim reiterates that Usenet really is distributed, robust, and uncensorable.
But the real Usenet has different failure modes - social ones:
> I used to try to copy many of my posts to alt.cypherpunks shortly after it
> was created, right after the the Great February End of Toad.com, but in
> recent months I haven'te bothered (mainly because no interesting
> communication was occurring in the alt.cypherpunks arena).
Usenet is a _great_ place to run Blacknet, because background noise is your friend,
and the uncensorability depends on piggybacking on the firehose.
It's a tougher place to run a cypherpunks list, which has enough problems
with signal-to-noise ratio as a mailing list, where majordomo filters out
the totally non-RTFM-capable users, without being an attractive nuisance for
crossposts from rec.politics.guns or alt.2600.flame.your.mama.
To some extent, running a sub-Usenet, or a robomoderated newsgroup which
kills crossposts from all but a select few groups, can help this.
But sci.crypt.research gets very little signal these days either, though no noise.




				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, stewarts@ix.netcom.com
Regular Key PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639

On Mon, 17 Nov 1997, Bill Stewart wrote:
> Just to balance Singapore, it'd be nice to have an archive in Amsterdam :-)
> Or in Virtual Tonga, or Niue.   Then there's the mirror at Ft. Meade :-)

I currently see no need for another archive. Certainly not on this Tongan
box. If some nodes go away, I might reconsider.

-- Lucky Green <shamrock@cypherpunks.to> PGP v5 encrypted email preferred.
   "Tonga? Where the hell is Tonga? They have Cypherpunks there?"

Bill Stewart <stewarts@ix.netcom.com> writes:
> Usenet is a _great_ place to run Blacknet, because background noise
> is your friend, and the uncensorability depends on piggybacking on
> the firehose.

Piggy-backing the firehose to borrow it's uncensorability was the idea
with the prototype eternity server.  I am not sure USENET is really
that reliable is the problem for it.  So perhaps you can boost
reliability by redundancy, secret split messages.

Adam
-- 
Now officially an EAR violation...
Have *you* exported RSA today? --> http://www.dcs.ex.ac.uk/~aba/rsa/

print pack"C*",split/\D+/,`echo "16iII*o\U@{$/=$z;[(pop,pop,unpack"H*",<>
)]}\EsMsKsN0[lN*1lK[d2%Sa2/d0<X+d*lMLa^*lN%0]dsXx++lMlN/dsM0<J]dsJxp"|dc`

At 11:18 am -0500 on 11/14/97, Tim May wrote:


> Even here on Cypherpunks we see toadies like Bob Hettinga fretting that our
> words are going too far, that we must learn to police ourselves or the
> police will be forced to do so.

Nice try, Tim.

Frankly, if you, or Paul Bradley, want to stand up and call for the death
of anyone, a federal judge, or the President of the United States, or the
Pope, for that matter, you're welcome to do so. Have fun, you crazy kids...

You just sound like loons, is all, and, at some point, you're going to piss
someone off who'll have less brains but more guns than you do, and enough
lawyers after the fact to make it all stick. My opinion, of course. Free
speech, and all that. :-).


So, no, Tim, I don't believe that the mellenium is here, that the Forces of
Darkness are building in the shadows, much less going to Thanksgiving
dinner at Uncle Tim's house.

I think that they're just as fucked up as they always were, Tim. If we keep
making progress, and, barring some major silliness you or I can't even
fathom, progress in cryptography is practically an economic necessity, now,
they'll continue to bluster like some charging rhino or something, but they
can't hurt anyone who's paying attention and has the proper tools.

So, boys and girls, do you think you can stay out of the way of a very
dangerous cornered animal? Well, yes, probably, by very dint of the fact
that *you've* cornered it. However, if you think it's necessary to either
prove your bravery by tempting it to give you an ad hoc rectal exam, or
worse, by ignoring it (no one here's guilt of that, I bet) then you're
welcome to try to survive your case of testosterone poisoning, but don't
say I didn't warn you...


We have only the example of Jim Bell to remind us that when you bang on the
gorilla's cage, you should expect to get shit thrown in your face. Yes, I
saw what looks like Tim's repost of my "coalmine" message go by, and I
don't think my opinion of Bell's situation has changed since then, but I've
decided to shovel Tim's dreck FIFO, for the time being, to keep better tabs
on it.

Cheers,
Bob Hettinga

-----------------
Robert Hettinga (rah@shipwright.com), Philodox
e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'
The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/
Ask me about FC98 in Anguilla!: <http://www.fc98.ai/>