RE: Br'er Tim and the Bug Hole

Bob Hettinga writes in reply ('>'):
>> If Tim believes that a judge has committed a capital crime, I want to
>> hear about it.
>
>Right. The judge made a decision that Tim thinks the judge should die
for.
>
>My point is not the fact of whether the judge committed an "executable"
>offense, or didn't. It was that Tim made a thinly veiled threat. To
wit, Tim
>implied that the Judge should be executed for his court decision. I'm
saying
>that guys with associates' degrees in "criminal justice" would love any
reason
>to make Tim a new wife of one of their permanent jail residents after
a, um,
>crack, like that, and Tim, more to the um, point, seems to, um, up the
ante,
>by sauntering down to the the jailhouse and pissing on the guard's
shoes.
>
>Metaphorically, of course. :-).

I think you're making a mountain out of a metaphor, here, Bob (sound of
language processor set on "puree"...)

In what seems to worry you about Tim, I see him just saying that if
things he thinks may come to pass, do come to pass, he isn't going to go
"quietly into that goodnight".  I suspect his view of what is coming is
influenced by where he lives (Corralitos, CA) just as yours is
influenced by your location (Boston, MA) and my viewpoint is necessarily
influenced by my location (Noblesville/Indianapolis, IN).  It seems to
me that a lot of social changes start on the West Coast, often including
those of a greater governmental powers nature -- Tim may actually have
more to worry about than you or me.  Or none of us may have these
worries *if* we make sure, in whatever ways we can, to influence others
to resist the continuing encroachment of governmental power upon
individual freedoms.  Plus I think (from what I can see):
* Tim likes to be prepared; and
* Tim finds weaponry intrinsically interesting;
so these elements enter his writing.


To make a long story short (too late!), when I read Tim saying that the
judge has committed a capital crime, I interpret that as he should be
tried, and if found guilty (as Tim thinks likely so), then he should
receive a severe punishment consistent with the nature of his crime.
Both Tim and you, Bob, write very clearly and coherently.  I have never
read anything that Tim has written that makes me think he is anywhere
near ready to make a "first strike" against government -- but if the
government chooses to act illegally and unconstitutionally against Tim,
he says he will defend himself as is his right.


I dunno... Sometimes, Bob, I think that you and Tim have so much trouble
because you are in such violent agreement about the importance of
cryptography...
==========================================================
Mark Leighton Fisher          Thomson Consumer Electronics
fisherm@indy.tce.com          Indianapolis, IN
"Their walls are built of cannon balls, their motto is
'Don't Tread on Me'"

At 10:37 AM -0700 11/14/97, Fisher Mark wrote:
...stuff elided...

>I dunno... Sometimes, Bob, I think that you and Tim have so much trouble
>because you are in such violent agreement about the importance of
>cryptography...

I had no "trouble" with Bob recently until he launched a major attack on
one little phrase, and chose to buttress it with over-the-top foamings
about "snot running down his barrell" and allusions to me being a hermit,
being a fool, styling myself as a freedom fighter, and various other
metaphors about The Old Man of the Mountain, and other stuff I can't quote
exactly because I chose to delete Bob's rants after glancing at them.

(I found one I hadn't deleted yet, the actual kick-off of this campaign:
"Tim's Way Cool Latter-Day Farnham's-Freehold in the Santa Clara
mountains.... a bunch of "freedom fighters" like the one you fancy yourself
to be these days... instead of shoving your favorite Mac-10 up the nose of
every statist treehugger you bump into out there in lotusland.... you won't
have to clean the snot off the end of your
gunbarrel so often...)

A charming way of making his point, eh? Some would call it "clever"
writing. I call it just a string of insults. And not even as creative as
Detweiler used to pull off.

His general writing style, liberally laced with what I think of as "New
Wave Journalism" metaphors, is not my writing style, and I usually don't
have the patience to wade through his verbiage to find his actual points.
Fine. His style is not mine. Neither is John Young's. Or Toto's. Or even
Bill Stewart's. Such is life.

But overly personal attacks which concentrate on Bob's apparent intense
dislike of _my_ style (despite his overuse of disingenuous smileys, like
":-)"), is a different matter.

As Monty noted, "Physician heal thyself!  Much of your discussion consists
of ad
hominem attacks with little content such as the paragraph quoted above."

I've tried to keep my replies to him brief. It delights me that many of my
brief replies have generated long, overwrought replies from him. Delights
me as I skim them to get the gist of his insults, then send his missive
into oblivion.

If Bob has objections or differences of opinion, fine. But he should not
squander his reputation capital by foaming about my personal choices, by
referring to snot running down my barrel, by claiming I said I was going to
kill a judge, and other such lies.

And he really ought to tone down his "Hunter S. Thompsen wannabee" style of
writing. It was old a couple of years ago.

--Tim May



The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Higher Power: 2^2,976,221   | black markets, collapse of governments.
"National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."

At 12:25 pm -0500 on 11/14/97, Tim May wrote:

> I had no "trouble" with Bob recently until he launched a major attack on
> one little phrase,

Straw. Camel. Back. Loon. Major Attack.

> (I found one I hadn't deleted yet, the actual kick-off of this campaign:
> "Tim's Way Cool Latter-Day Farnham's-Freehold in the Santa Clara
> mountains.... a bunch of "freedom fighters" like the one you fancy yourself
> to be these days... instead of shoving your favorite Mac-10 up the nose of
> every statist treehugger you bump into out there in lotusland.... you won't
> have to clean the snot off the end of your
> gunbarrel so often...)

Ahhhh. Fine form I was, too. You shoulda been there, Tim... Upf! You *were*
weren't you, you devil, you...

> A charming way of making his point, eh?

Thankyouverramuch....

> Some would call it "clever"
> writing.

*I*'d think so. I have the finest education that the nation-state can buy.
I love state schools, don't you, Tim?

> I call it just a string of insults. And not even as creative as
> Detweiler used to pull off.

Marvellous. Hettinga. Detweiller. Same thing. Yeah, right, Tim.  Like I
mail bomb the list with humongous screeds about Tentacles of Medusa...

Opppppssss. Um, Anonymously. I mean...

Oh. I get it. Detweiller's *more* creative than I am, so, then...

Sigh. Well, gosh. Looks like ya got me, there, Tim. Detweiller *is* more
creative than I am. I'm crushed, I have to tell ya...


> His general writing style, liberally laced with what I think of as "New
> Wave Journalism" metaphors, is not my writing style, and I usually don't

Ah, c'mon, Tim "New Wave" was 10 years *after* when I learned to write like
this. I came up in, you know, "the worst era of American Education since
the invention of the Public School," remember?

> have the patience to wade through his verbiage to find his actual points.
> Fine. His style is not mine. Neither is John Young's. Or Toto's. Or even
> Bill Stewart's. Such is life.

And, ladies and germs, another point of Tim's wanders off into the sunset,
in search of cute little barnyard animals...

Ooops. Sorry. Heh... Lost my train of thought...

> But overly personal attacks which concentrate on Bob's apparent intense
> dislike of _my_ style (despite his overuse of disingenuous smileys, like
> ":-)"), is a different matter.

:-).

> As Monty noted, "Physician heal thyself!  Much of your discussion consists
> of ad
> hominem attacks with little content such as the paragraph quoted above."

Actually, I think we've handled the definition of "Ad Hominem", already
(wait, there's a list of them somewhere... Oh, you've got it? Cool.). I'd
call what I said, "needless vituperative insults", wouldn't you? (Wait,
I've got a definition of "vituperative" somewhere... Never mind? Okay).


Just feeding you back your own bullshit, Tim, and I've learned from a
master. Reap what you've sown, Bunky.


> I've tried to keep my replies to him brief.

Like this terse little missive I'm replying to? Please.

However, if you are, maybe it's because you're at a loss for words. Maybe
it's becaue you can't write anything new anymore? Black Helicopters got
your toungue?

I remember someone as much as a year ago, talking about how there aren't
any more long essays on cypherpunks anymore. Oh. And someone else, a few
days ago, saying something about how I wasn't posting? And now here, before
I even took a *break*, you say I'm writing too *much*?

The ganglia twitch...


> It delights me that many of my
> brief replies have generated long, overwrought replies from him.

Everytime you throw a little crap at me, I park a dumptruck full on your
front lawn? Fine by me...

>  Delights
> me as I skim them to get the gist of his insults, then send his missive
> into oblivion.

Ah. Good. They were meant to be skimmed. The subliminal messages will kick
in at 12:02 pm, Thanksgiving Day. You'll have this uncontrollable urge to
stand naked on on your front porch, with your arms outstretched exactly 1
inch apart, so the local sherrif's SWAT-Auxillary can handcuff you and take
you to your new mate in a county jail somewhere...

:-).


> If Bob has objections or differences of opinion, fine.

Enormous ones. Absolutely. Damn straight. I used to think you were a
grandstanding, name-dropping vituperatively marvelous son of a bitch, Tim,
and I used to *love* your opinions.

Now, however, *my* opinion is that you're just a loon. Big difference of
opinion, there, did you catch it?

> But he should not
> squander his reputation capital by foaming about my personal choices, by
> referring to snot running down my barrel,

Tim, Tim, Tim. To you think I would squander my reputation capital on just
*anyone*? <BudLightMan> I *Love* you man...</BLM>

>  by claiming I said I was going to
> kill a judge, and other such lies.

No, Tim. You threatened a judge. Frankly, if I hadn't called you on *that*
little episode, you'd probably have said worse, by now instead of denying
up and down that you didn't say it, and, sooner or later, you'd have pissed
off someone without the "proper" educational credentials, and an
"inapprpriate" desire to play soldier. <Ooopsss. Is there an echo in here?>

> And he really ought to tone down his "Hunter S. Thompsen wannabee" style of
> writing. It was old a couple of years ago.

Thompson, Tim. Thompson. Don't take the master's name in vain. Heck, he'd
probably call me a Fucking Statist, like you will, soon enough. Anyway, my
writing not nearly tired as your "there's a [statist] under every bush" is
anymore, Mr. Welch.

However right *those* guys might have been -- and, frankly, *you* were,
until you started predicting the Immediate Destruction of the Republic,
film at eleven. Or deciding that you're going to start the revolution all
by yourself.

<WhiningLiberalMode> *Frankly*, Tim, I think it's awfully *selfish* not
having your *friends* there to help you stand at the barracades. </WLM>


Oh. Tim? One more thing.

My writing style, or lack of it, has nothing to do with the fact that
everything I said, in your bad paraphrasing of that quote of mine up there,
is stone cold truth.

Right back atcha, Tim. To paraphrase you yourself said to me, "Get over it."

Or, was it, "Get a life"?

Cheers,
Bob Hettinga



-----------------
Robert Hettinga (rah@shipwright.com), Philodox
e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'
The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/
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