Re: Further costs of war (fwd)

Forwarded message:

> Subject: Re: Further costs of war (fwd)
> From: dlv@bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM)
> Date: Mon, 24 Nov 97 00:46:22 EST

> While I have no love for the japs, I mus point out in all fairness that
> FDR was attacking them on all fronts for years: 1) stopping the japs
> from immigrating into the us, 2) cutting off their supplies of raw
> materials (and therefore pushing the japs to conquer the territories
> that would assure the supply). In particular, right before the japs
> attacked pearl harbor, the US embargoed oil shipments to the japs.
> The japs had said previously that they'd consider such an embargo
> as a declaration of war. In particular, their line about p.h. was
> that it wasn't a "sulplise attack", and that the US had previously
> declared war on the japs by imposing the embargo.

The Japanese joined the Tri-partite on Sept. 27, 1940. 5 days later it began
its first attacks in Indo-china, 13 months prior to the attack on Pearl
Harbor. America was shocked by these acts and interpreted them as openly
hostile and tended to strengthen Chian Kai-shek's claims as the legitimate
Chinese authority. Prior to this signing Japanese forces had advanced up the
Kowloon Peninsula to glair through the wire at Hong Kong. Tokyo demanded the
British close the Burma Road and cease all war material trade with China. The
British requested the Americans invoke a general embargo as well as moving
naval forces to the western Pacific. The Americans rejected all these
suggestions. They had moved the Pacific Fleet from the West Coast to Pearl
Harbor. Because of the upcoming election it was felt that such actions would
be interpreted as support for the British colonialism which was politicaly
unacceptable to much of America. The British responded by offering to close
the Burma Road for 3 months (during the monsoon season when there was little
traffic to interrupt). Only in July of 1940, 2 months before Japan signed the
act, did Roosevelt finaly put an embargo in place which covered aviation fuel,
lubricants, and certain scrap iron and steel. In September the regulations
were tightened. Only in Nov. after being re-elected did he include copper,
zinc, brass, oil-drilling equipment, and other strategic materials.

It's important to note that as early as January 1941 the Emporer had ordered
Yamamoto to review the attack on Hawaii. Presumably because he felt
uncomfortable with the entire thing.

So the time line is something like this:

15 months prior to Pearl Harbor the US places an embargo on Japan presumably
because of their aggressive policies.

13 months prior to the attack on Pearl Harbor the Japanese sign the
Tri-partite Act.

12 months prior to the attack on Pearl Harbor the Emporer gets cold feet
and orders a review of the plan.

> My recollection is that Hitler's generla staff was busily designing the
> plans for invading the US, to be implemented after he  was done with
> the GB and the USSR. They involved invading via his latin american
> allies (notably mexico) and possibly canada. However there was no
> way to sell the war against germany to the american public, except
> as part of a package deal with the war on japs.

Actualy at the time, German invasion through Mexico was felt to be a real
possibility. There was significant build-up of both covert agents in Mexico
as well as military forces along the border during this time.

Note, I would appreciate any references to the regulation of Japanese
nationals transiting through or applying for residence in the US during this
period. Can't say that I've ever seen this issue in anything I've read.


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This has no crypto relevance.

Jim Choate <ravage@ssz.com> further writes:
<a bunch of historical facts>
> So the time line is something like this:
>
> 15 months prior to Pearl Harbor the US places an embargo on Japan presumably
> because of their aggressive policies.
>
> 13 months prior to the attack on Pearl Harbor the Japanese sign the
> Tri-partite Act.
>
> 12 months prior to the attack on Pearl Harbor the Emporer gets cold feet
> and orders a review of the plan.

The japs didn't join the axis out fo the blue. The US was picking on the Japs
back at the Washington conference in 1921/2, and succeffully turned the
British against the japs (they used to be allies). Ever since FDR got elected,
he bulding up the navy, building new bases on Hawaii, Guam, Midway, Samoa,
etc, (in violation of the Washington conference), grabbing small pacific
islands that no one claimed before (jervis, Howland, Phoebe, Palmira). On June
26, 1939 the US denounced the US-jap trade treaty (in response to the
Chamberlain-Arita agreement of June 24 to curtail british aid to Chiang). In
September 1940 FDR introduced the draft (that was priot to the Japs signing
the axis treaty on Sept 27). After 9/29, the US cut off iron shipments to
japan, oredered US citizens to leave Japan and its possessions, drafted 27K
reservists into the navy, and gave chiang a 25MM loan. On Nov 30 the US again
said that Chiang is the only lawful government of China and gave him another
100MM. The japs heavily negotiated for 7 months; then on July 25, 1941, FDR
froze jap assets in the US. Nevertheless in November the japs asked to resume
negotiations, and asked primarily to lift the oil embargo. On 11/26 the US
rejected this request, and called on japan to recognize chiang as the ruler of
china. On 12/6 FDR sent an threatning personal message to Hirohito telling him
to back down. On 12/7 the japs attacked Pearl Harbor and simulteneously
rejected the 11/26 demands (viewing them as an effective declaration of war by
the US). My intrepretation is that the japs certainly tried to bend over
backwards to delay a war with the US until they were in a better position, and
FDR certainly did all hsi could to hasten the war.

> Note, I would appreciate any references to the regulation of Japanese
> nationals transiting through or applying for residence in the US during this
> period. Can't say that I've ever seen this issue in anything I've read.

According to my books, the US stopped all Jap immigration into US and its
possession (i.e. Hawaii, Philippines, ec) as of May 1, 1925.

---

Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM
Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps